The wrong idea and the possible dangers

[VaultPurple]

The simple way to pick pole vaulters is just simply who wants to do it. To an extent that you have big enough poles for their weight. Ask the team who wants to vault and have them meet you at the pit. Teach them how to hold the pole at a grip you would do grass drills or something with. Do a few grass drills just so they know what side of the pole to go to, even if they are just starting with the pole over their sholder. After a little while of jumping to the side of the pole take em over to the pit and let them try to jump up onto the matt with the pole. This is the biggest deciding factor of if its worth bothering with a kid. If they jog their 1 or two steps throw down the pole and scream like a girl then I dont care how much they 'want' to pole vault, they need to go find something else to do. If a girl can jump off the proper take off foot and land on the mat on her first day then I consider that an amazing accomplishment and a prospective high school pole vaulter. If a guy can hold about two foot over his verticle reach and make it into the pit without letting go of the pole on the first day, then he will make a prospective pole vaulter. You can teach almost anyone to become an athleate to some an extent but you cant teach them to want to vault or to not be scared to jump onto the mat. My biggest pet peeve is seeing the people that run drop the pole and scream, guy or girl, and ive seen both. But there is also a diffrence between the guy that tries to jump into the pit and lands on the matt but cant do nothing else, and wont listen to a word you say then the guy who on his first day has no athletic ability but will try anything you ask and eventhough he looks hopeless at first you have to drag him away from the pit because he doesnt want to stop, and is the same guy who is out there the next afternoon uncovering the pit and having at it again befor anyone else.

My sophmore year I was that hopeless kid. I was 5'4 115lb, 13 foot long jumper and ran the 100 in 15 seconds. It took about 3 days to make it onto the mat consistently, and about two weeks to clear 6 foot. But I was out there everyday the second the bell rang to let out class at 3 and leaving at 6 when practice ended at 5. The coaches kept telling me that I didnt need to keep pole vaulting because I wasnt built for it and that I wasnt tall enough and that I should just keep with distance. I only jumped 8'6 my sophmore year and never bent a pole. But I finnaly got a better coach, pole selection, and a little faster (i was still a 800-3200 guy). I learned how to run (kinda), read every forum on pole vault power from front to back, and did everything I could to get better. My senior year I jumped 13'6, and now I am a college freshman jumping over 14' befor the first meet of the year. Im not jumping anything impressive yet but I have made strides and bounds over what any of my coaches thought I should have been able to do.

[KirkB]

Well said, VaultPurple, you sound very close to the typical young kid that should be given every chance to vault, and not be discouraged!

Good for you for ignoring the coach who said "stick with middle distance"!

The only point you made that I disagree with is that you should weed out some newbie recruits on day one.

First, you don't have to - they'll weed themselves out.

Second, for some slow learners (like myself), it would take several weeks to get the hang of it. On day one, I might be one of the ones that you're tempted to weed out, but everyone learns at a different pace, and sometimes it takes young kids a few weeks of constant practice before they get the hang of it. If they aren't willing to spend those weeks practicing, then there's your answer - without you having to say anything.

Kirk

[rainbowgirl28]

VaultPurple, if you make them vault in the sand the first few practices, you eliminate most of the kids who would freak out and scream. The kids who aren't going to work hard will get bored of sand vaulting and try something else. The kids who are scared will might do the same thing in the sand, but more often than not they will build confidence and then be ready to vault into the pit when you move over there.

[KirkB]

dj, until you mentioned it, I had not actually realized how LUCKY I was to have been FORCED to learn how to straight-pole vault in HS before I "upgraded" to fiberglass. In my case, I had no choice - fiberglass wasn't yet readily available. Until today, I had thought that I was UNLUCKY to not have started on fiberglass in Jr. High. So thanks for bringing me to this realization.

My 3 years of steel vaulting in Jr. HS (just a few months each Spring/Summer) allowed me to get the hang of the event, as my speed (a little), strength (steadily) and coordination (steadily) improved, and in my next 3 years - although I lacked coaching and technique in HS with fiberglass - at least I didn't injure myself (much).

You see, I learned how to land on my feet, or roll safely (usually) when steel-poling, so then on my falls when I was "wild" on the fiberglass pole I knew how to land like a cat.

Had I started with fiberglass, I would have been one of those reckless vaulters that wants to bend the pole on Day 1 (and who knows how I'd land then!), instead of progressing up to 11 feet (to use your example) before starting to bend the pole.

I guess if you were my coach, you'd force me to clear that extra 6" before I could upgrade to fiberglass! Ha ha!

So what can be done about this? If a vaulter follows the weight rules, then it seems to me that he's UNLIKELY to bend the pole until his grip gets near the top. Is this true? (Pardon my ignorance.) Or is there still a good possibility of bending the pole within your weight with a lower grip? Maybe it's not this simple, but if the rules are followed re not even PRACTICING on an underweight pole, then won't the athlete be "forced" to straight-pole?

Or am I all wet, due to my lack of awareness of current HS vaulting? i.e. Can Fred "cannonball vault" over an 8-foot bar on a legal weight pole? I am assuming that if he's in his 1st or 2nd year of PV, he won't be gripping at the top of the pole so he won't be able to bend a legal pole yet. Right?

The issue as I see it is that a strong/fast star athlete (in other sports or events) or a decathlete is going to expect instant success, and won't want to wait until after 1-2 years of straight-poling before they get bend - swinging properly, of course. They want instant results!

So what to do about it?

Kirk

[rainbowgirl28]

So what can be done about this? If a vaulter follows the weight rules, then it seems to me that he's UNLIKELY to bend the pole until his grip gets near the top. Is this true? (Pardon my ignorance.) Or is there still a good possibility of bending the pole within your weight with a lower grip? Maybe it's not this simple, but if the rules are followed re not even PRACTICING on an underweight pole, then won't the athlete be "forced" to straight-pole?

It's all relative between the length of the pole and the size/speed/technical ability of the athlete. So there is no easy answer to your question.

As a very rough estimate, if you have HS athletes of average speed/athletic ability (so not a snail but not particularly fast), average height (maybe ~5'3 for a girl and 5'8 for a boy), you start them on poles slightly above their weight in the lengths of 11' for girls and 13' for boys, and are teaching them proper technique, they generally will not bend it much until they get near the top of the pole. And most should not be bending it until they can grip near 11' and 13' IMO,

Of course high school vaulters come in all shapes/sizes/abilities so you would need to adjust for bigger/smaller/faster/slower and of course what poles you actually have on hand.

[Vault&Flip]

VaultPurple, if you make them vault in the sand the first few practices, you eliminate most of the kids who would freak out and scream. The kids who aren't going to work hard will get bored of sand vaulting and try something else. The kids who are scared will might do the same thing in the sand, but more often than not they will build confidence and then be ready to vault into the pit when you move over there.

Absolutely agree with you on this 100 percent. If they can't take off into the sand they will find it difficult to do so into the pit, so this is a good place to start to build up confidence. The pit is where kids pick up bad habits, so we always do our best to have kids learn all the drills (and practice them consistently) away from the pit, so that things carry over when we finally start jumping at bars. We all know how important speed/strength/height are for ultimately being successful in this event, however, a kid of very average athletic ability can be extremely successful at the high school level with the proper technique and training.

[dj]

good morning

starting in the sand is the way to go...

I usually spend the first 3 weeks in the sand.. even with Al J. it was very common for guys to grip 11 feet after three weeks in the sand.. some 12 feet.. those numbers, 11 to 12 foot grips, translate to a 10' to 11'6" vaults when we move to the pit.. that’s pretty good for a beginner..

the girls could usually hold 9-6 to 10 feet easily in the sand pit… that translates to a 7-6 to 8-6 jump… and the best girls would sometimes match the boys... when that happened you knew they were going to be a 12' female jumper in high school.

This thread speaks to the “grass roots” of our sport in America. All the other threads on technique, or on “where are “our” vaulters of tomorrow”.. etc.. all lead back to this issue.

It’s very difficult for me to say “what I really feel” on this issue.. because everyone will get “pi…. Take it personal.. etc..

But again I will say.. Bemiller is correct.. the pole vault is not for everyone.

Now before you start yelling.. listen for a second…

The opportunity should be there for everyone… Opportunity.

And we have done a tremendous job, like Becca has said, in creating “energy” for our sport.. Beach/Street vaults….

I personally did the first “Beach Vault” that I was aware of ever taking place (Manhattan Beach, CA) in 1989. We now have the summit and 100’s of other productions to promote the sport of pole vaulting… I have to believe we have more people vaulting today than ever before.

But what is missing? If anything.

i'm still pretty happy and proud of our results at the games over the past 8 years...

What I think is missing is this…with our commitment and determination with “saving” the sport we haven’t found a way to mix “being kind” and letting everyone vault… with developing potential Olympic champions.

Or better yet with our effort to let everyone vault… we are not developing new coaches that can coach athletes to Olympic standards.

Or better yet with our University head coaches (in general) going to a “Track only” format there are very few places for a high school vaulter to continue a pole vaulting career.

Clubs have seemed to be the best and only answer to pole vault development, except for Bemiller, and now Russ, who got lucky and went to work for a coach that wanted the best vaulters in the NCAA to go with the best decathletes, sprinters, hurdlers etc…

I equate the vault with what happened to distance running in America. Initially we “structured” our way into a dilemma.. for pole vaulting it was the reduction of scholarships from 28 down to 14 (now 12). In distance running we changed high school cross country from 2 miles to 3 miles. Why did this have an effect? Well at 3 miles you “let in’ anyone that was willing to get up a 5am and run 5 miles of LSD. You eliminated many of your DNA “fast” athletes.

In 1972 I had 5 sophomore cross-country boys run, 9.42.0…10:11…10:13..10:17….and 10:18. for 2 miles… That was in Orlando, Florida where most people said you have never had a great distance runner from Florida and never will. I had a Junior “wrestler” run… 9:51.0

How may teams have that in today’s high schools?

I’m not willing to say it was me as a coach.. it wasn’t me it was the system and I how I could use the system for “natural” selection.

My point is this.. when the high school distance was 2 miles.. everyone, almost anyone could make it for 2 miles.. my three best guys were distance runners.. my fourth guy was a 51.7 quarter miler. My fifth guy a Tennis player that ran 2:02 in the 800. By the time they were seniors Florida had moved up to 3 miles… My quarter miler went to football and the decathlon. My tennis player went back to Tennis.. The wrestler couldn’t handle the three miles and didn’t come back out in the spring of his senior year.

So USA track and field though they were helping the sport by promoting more participations and helping athlete prepare for college which in turn help the sport at the Olympic level. But it back fired. The quality went down and we no longer could compete at an international level causing support to drop… but participation increased because of the “shoe”? average runner boom.. creating more “average” runners, creating questions about coaching, diet and athletes that didn’t have the heart or work ethic!!!!

Another example is the relays… what did we do in 2000? We created a “high performance” system to try and eliminate the “Egos” (both coaches and athletes) from getting in the way of winning gold! What happened? The system addressed everything but the “ego”!! and you see what happened with that.. by the way that is not a “shot” at Brooks… not even.. Brooks did what he was supposed to do… I was at the first meeting in 2001 and everyone was told, by Brooks, to leave their ego at the door.. he did they didn’t..

Pole vaulting.. we have to have development, marketing, transition and world class coaching. It is very hard to become a world class coach without having world class athletes. It is hard to promote the sport if you don’t set records and win championships.

You have to strike a balance between development and love for the sport and not short changing that one athlete you may have that can win a championship. I had 14 vaulters (some decathletes) at Northridge plus Tully. We had split sessions with each getting there “specific” level of coaching.

I have always believed that the vault is a very “coach” driven sport. I did a study in 1980’s for USATF.. (Tim McMichaels’ was included in that) to show “where were the vaulters coming from.” Texas had the highest number of high school 15 foot vaulters. There seemed to be 5 “pockets” of vaulters nation wide, California, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon.. ? All were “coach’ driven.

It seems we are still following that pattern, with maybe the states changing slightly.

Was there actually a point made in this? I don’t know but thanks Becca for letting me have the “spoon.”

dj

[vaultmd]

I agree that pole vaulting is not for everyone; however, I disagree about whom it is for.

I think anyone who is smart enough to land in the pit all the time can pole vault. If they are slow and weak, they may not jump high, but there is a good grip/pole/run for everyone and as far as I'm concerned they can be vaulters and you never know which of the slow and weak will become fast and strong.

I don't care how good an athlete someone is perceived to be if he/she are too stupid to do what it takes to land in the pit.

[Branko720]

DJ I totally understand what you are saying.

Here's the thing, as a high school coach I have trouble enough, at the school I am at getting kids to try pole vaulting. So I don't really get a chance to choose athletes that can have success at an international level.

However I do agree with you that this sport is coach driven. I have noticed many athletes that are big enough, strong enough, and fast enough to be successful at the DI level and maybe even internationally, but they are at colleges and universities that do not have a PV coach (or a "jumps" coach who knows very little about the event). What can we do to change this?

[belmore]

Wilson, gonna agree with you here. Obviously, we are not all great athletes. I can attest to that. But at a time when I read about the obesity crisis with kids and the lack of activity of our youth, I cannot see turning away a youngster that wants to be active by swinging on a pole. I don't feel that we will hurt our olympic and international efforts by letting kids learn how to pole vault that are not ideal candidates to compete on that stage. I really find this a strange topic on this website. I would think it great to only work with world class vaulters, but I know I would have missed out on some great prs at 7 feet, would have missed meeting some really great kids that share the enthusiasm I and the rest of the people that read this website have for the feeling we have for this event. Well, I'm going to do my best not to hurt the US's chances internationally or at the Olympics, but I think I am still going to do my best to help a youngster over their first bar and land safe. I'll certainly do it without the intention of diluting the vaulting pool of future stars, just the pure ejoyment of flying for a second.

[Andy_C]

For me, the most important aspects of a pole vaulter is their mentality and character. This includes their work ethic, motivation, patience, willingness to learn and love for the event. I think these are the types of pole vaulters that learn how to vault safely and also reach their potential. That is certainly not to say that these individuals are guaranteed to be successful though. Physical abilities are of course very important but if I were a coach I would really hesitate to turn down a not-so-skilled youngster with a good attitude.

On the topic of athleticism, I think a lot of people really underestimate pole vaulters. Take Bubka, yes he's not the fastest man on Earth. But put Usain Bolt on the rings, high bar or horse/ make him run a marathon/ put him in a pool/ put him in a strong man competition and see what you get. There are many ways of measuring athleticism; muscle strength, cardiovascular fitness, bodily-kinesthetic intelligence ect. The pole vault is a multi-dimensional sport where you're not just looking for the guy who can run the fastest or who is the strongest. It's an incredibly technical event where success is not necessarily measured by physical prowess. Deceptively, you are going to get some people at the top who really don't put up incredibly impressive sprint times or benches because they've gained success through technique or other (hopefully legal) means. Or you may have an incredibly athletic individual with prodigious natural talent, completely waste their potential because they're scared, have a poor attitude or work ethic.

This is all just my opinion though. But I do regard myself a bit of an outsider (mentality-wise) in the pole vault community considering my background. I was never into track and field or gymnastics. I spent 14 years in martial arts and served in the Army Reserve so my views on what makes a good athlete may differ from many here. From my own personal account; I came from kickboxing and mixed martial arts. Never fought professionally but I trained a lot. I'm not the arrogant kind but I considered myself to be quite fit I also trained in the same gym with several guys who have fought internationally so I know what "fit" looks like. Anyway, my first gymnastics session I was completely and utterly schooled by a thin, docile-looking Europan lady in her mid-30s (my coach). She pole vaulted the next day, I remained at home with acquainting myself with the effects of lactic acid compliments of the rings. While I know many vaulters out there are not very athletic my point is that a lot of vaulters, particularly many of the best, are extremely athletic. Are they the most athletic people in the world? Perhaps not, but don't underestimate them. Many "outsiders" will be shocked at just how difficult the pole vault is... I know I was.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

So far on this thread the focus seems to be on the athlete. Here's a spin that might deserve some comment. I recently held a two day clinic in a neighboring state. The clinic was initiated by one of the head USATF officials in that state. His concerns were that if someone with some knowledge of the fundamentals didn't provide some guidance there was a good chance that someone was going to get hurt. The real basis of his concern was the performance of the vaulters at the previous state meet at which he was an official. So he asked me to provide that knowledge in a clinic/camp setting. So I agreed. We had 28 in attendance, about six or so were identified as coaches, the rest were vaulters or vaulter curious ( acouple thought they might want to do it, but weren't sure). Only one of the "coaches" had any experience with the vault what so ever, and he was a master's decathelete. Each of them were responsibile for coaching the vault because it was assigned to them. I am afraid that this is more the rule than the exception, and unlike most of those posting here the fates of our high school vaulters seems pretty much at serious risk...