First time indoors for the year.

[VaultPurple]

Grade: 13th
How long you have been jumping: 21 months
Height:5'5
Weight: 140lb
What pole you are on (length and weight rating): 13'7 160lb UCS Spirit
How high you are gripping: 13'1 (max hand hold)
Run: 6 stride from 73'6
What bar(s) you are attempting in the video: 14'6 or a little more I think. (the bungey is set on 15'6, but the standards are on a 3in platform so 15'9, then minus how ever tall the runway is, since box doesnt quite touch actual ground im saying about a foot or maybe more).

Ok so Im gripping the max hand hold on the pole and I made it in decient on this jump (standards were set on like 80cm and i brushed bungey a little on way down). But This jump was kinda a fluke because I never made it in with this pole after that from a 6, I moved back to a 7 and could do it though.

I think it may have something to do with my plant. One of the coaches kept commenting that I dont need to swing so early that I need to almost have a delay after take off to let myself travle into the pit befor I swing up.

Just wanted to see everyones thoughts on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQBTsIzxno

[powerplant42]

One of the coaches kept commenting that I dont need to swing so early that I need to almost have a delay after take off to let myself travle into the pit befor I swing up.

Well they are mistaken. Jump, swing. There is no 'drive'.

Hey, it's kind of hard to see your jump with all those people in the way during important stuff! All I could really tell was that your plant is a little bit late and that you're under by an unkown amount.

[VaultPurple]

After looking at the video a while, I think the concept he meant about the delay was just to drive my chest a little more and pull my leg back farther. Where you never accualy pull the leg back, you drive away from you take off position and when fulley extended you swing. I think I just need to get a better stretch from my chest to my toe.

And I think I was under like 6in, but that is quite an improvement from my usual foot or two. But I am suprised... this is the first video you have commented on and not told me to work on my free take off.

[powerplant42]

Haha! I did acknowledge your 'underness'. But really, you can't swing like you and your coaches want you to if you're under... period.

[chuckd1356]

The idea to stretching your back leg out is to build this incredibly strong elastic band in your body.
It gets to a point where you're incapable of holding it, and you can use it to whip up to the inversion.


Sorry if this isn't the "accepted" terminology... it's what I learned at Bill Falk's last summer.

[powerplant42]

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=16269

[VaultPurple]

haha .. thats what I thought, but eveyones got their on way.

Who knows one day in the future someone may come up with some new wackey model that looks nothing like petrovs and everone will quickly jump on that. I always thought it would be kind of cool to do a kind of joggadin where you flipped up into a hand stand and did a front hand spring over the cross bar

[KirkB]

The idea to stretching your back leg out is to build this incredibly strong elastic band in your body.
It gets to a point where you're incapable of holding it, and you can use it to whip up to the inversion.

Sorry if this isn't the "accepted" terminology...

Chuck, your terminology is perfect. You describe it almost exactly as in BTB2.

... it's what I learned at Bill Falk's last summer.

Chuck, if this is what you heard at a Bill Falk camp, then kudos to him. I agree 100%.

I don't owe Falk an apology re my other posts about his coaching ideas, as IMHO they're still bad. But on this one idea, he's right.

PP, you should know better than to argue against the COACH rather than argue against the IDEA. This is the way I interpret your inference, by you quoting the other Falk thread re "Tuck/Shoot".

Yes, sometimes when a coach with "often bad" ideas comes up with a new idea, you need to take it with a grain of salt.

But in this case, Falk is promoting the same trail-leg technique as Launder, Petrov, myself, and many others. As well-read as you are, you should know this.

Mine is just a more EXTREME style of this idea.

This one idea can add a foot to your PR - even without the extreme BB style (not recommended for beginners or intermediates).

Kirk

[powerplant42]

I did not ever say that the idea was wrong. It is 100% correct. But if chuck is going to start using Bill Falk's 'stuff' to critique vaulters, he should know what's wrong with it.

It was a precaution more than anything else.

[KirkB]

[chuckd1356]

Yeah.


Where I can find what's wrong with his stuff?
Just so I have a good idea... any threads on it?


Edit: just saw the links...

Edit 2:

When I was at the camp, they never once said anything about the tuck and shoot.
They told us to keep a straight trail leg, and get that whipping action like I described in my first post.

Just in case you were wondering...

[KirkB]

OK, glad you found the link to the "Tuck & Shoot - Is this really what he teaches?" thread.

On that thread, you will find a link to Bill Falk's website. Mark Strawderman seems to be his co-author.

On the home page of their website, there's a series of articles that we discussed on that thread, and from reading those articles and from watching one of their training videos, I draw the conclusion (my opinion only) that they're way, way off what the Petrov model is. They use buzz words like "continuous chain", but their descriptions of how you should swing and invert don't follow the continuous chain part of the Petrov model - so they don't know what they're talking about when they refer to the "continuous chain". There's many other ways that they differ from the Petrov model as well.

I doubt that Falk or Strawderman would call what they teach "Tuck & Shoot", but it sure sounds like that's what they're teaching - perhaps without realizing it.

On their website I think there's also a link to one or more of their videos. Don't watch it! It's wrong!

My recommendation is that you also NOT follow the technique that they recommend on their website, and that you NOT attend their camps - if you want to learn the Petrov model, that is.

But if you want to learn how to tuck/shoot, go nuts!

Even though they're right about the elasticity of the trail leg, there's too many other technical points where they're way off base. Trying to make sense of all this in detail will only confuse you, as you won't know what to believe and what not to believe. So just don't believe any of it.

Buy the BTB2 book, and the DVD that supplements it instead!

And/or buy some of Rick Baggett's training videos!

... and hang out on PoleVaultPower!

If anyone wishes to discuss this - including the co-authors - I would be pleased to discuss the pros and cons of the technique that they teach.

Kirk