6P - 10-19-08 - Great Practice

[KirkB]

6P, more hard-nosed advice ...

You goals are far too vague.

What will it take to get onto a college team? (Are you thinking with scholarship, or without?) Can anyone advise 6P of this?

If you don't set goals, you can't meet them. Or you'll be satisfied with mediocrity.

It sounds to me like you're desparate for getting a phenomenal PR before Xmas that's just going to miraculously give you that free ride to college that you're DREAMING of.

I do admire your present determination, but read my lips ... "THERE'S NO SHORTCUTS TO VAULTING HIGH. DON'T EXPECT OVERNIGHT RESULTS! SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE!

The Hallowe'en Vault is NOT an important meet, no matter how "fun" it will be. Pick a more practical time to peak - SOMETIME NEXT YEAR. Then work towards that.

If you're a walk-on, the college coaches aren't going to ask what month you made your PR (before or after Xmas). They don't care.

If you hope to get a scholarship, listen to the advice that others will hopefully give you here shortly. For all your ambition, I don't think it's going to happen unless you increase your PR SUBSTANTIALLY! I hesitate to put an exact height on this, but others can tell you their experience. College coaches on here might also chime in, hopefully, to give you a dose of reality. I truly hope that I'm wrong about this, and that I'll be corrected by others.

Question: What's the LOWEST PR that a male PVer has ever had (in recent years) and still got a full ride? Partial ride?

I had another post prepared offline, which I'll publish now - although it's in response to our dialogue from last night (I think).

If I've killed your spirit a bit, 6P, it's not intentional. In fact, to tell you the truth, my intent is just the opposite. I want you to set realistic goals, then strive to meet them! There's plenty of other reasons to strive to vault high in HS, and there's still very good hope for you making a college team, albeit perhaps not on a full ride. I think you're over-stressing about the college scholarship angle - UNREALISTICALLY.

I'll say one thing, 6P, you're getting a lot of attention on this board now. I think it's because by publishing your vids, you're your own Reality Show. Keep it up!

Kirk

[KirkB]

I should have published this post first, but better late than never ...

6P, heed all of VTV's advice. He's a CURRENT ELITE vaulter, and he knows best. My intent is not to contradict any advice that you're getting from others. Rather, my intent is to complement it, and to provide you only with some very specific technical advice in the areas where I consider myself an expert (since last Wednesday!). Specifically, the takeoff, swing, and gymnastics training.

From VTV's post above (and from having watched him vault), I believe that he's also an expert in the takeoff/swing areas, and I concur with his advice.

I also have some advice to share re motivation (mental training), which you should be beginning to realize by now, if you read between the lines of some of my most recent questions. They're designed to make you think about "what really matters".

Take ALL advice on this forum with a grain of salt, discuss what you hear with your real-live coach(es) that know you better than we do (I've said this a few times before, right?), and above all else, after hearing from all the online "coaches" and your real-live coach(es), remember that it's YOUR responsibility to take charge of YOUR PV career! I actually think you get this quite well, and I admire your determination, ambition, and "take charge" attitude!

Let us "online coaches" know if we confuse you with any conflicting advice, and I'm sure we can resolve it amiably.

There is a difference to the recommended training schedule between HS vaulters and college vaulters (or post-grad vaulters). VTV's is great for college/elite, and good for eager-beaver HS'ers, like yourself. In the XC thread, RainbowGirl quite correctly identified PP (and KE, but he's "grown up" now) as eager-beavers, and twice a week vaulting for them off-season is good. Very good. As I recall, that was my usual off-season schedule in college too (but before Xmas, I usually did short runs only).

From what I've observed on your vids and in your posts, I think you're definitely in the eager-beaver category , so you can handle twice a week (even tho for practical reasons you're now planning to cut back to Sundays only). My intent of pushing you on "figuring your technique out in the gym" was really (and still is) IN ADDITION to your vaulting days. Or the drills could even be done on the same days. I saw a highbar at the end of your runway, so you can use that for some of your drills. I'm more worried about your FOCUS (mind space that you devote to each area) than the amount of TIME you spend in each area.

Did you catch my light-bulb joke? ha! ha!

For the time being, I suppose this is all a moot point, since you've just found an extra day to do gymnastics. I would also do running that day, for obvious reasons. In general, try to either excercise your whole body every training day, or alternate upper body / lower body days - "it depends". But I leave the specifics of your training schedule to others.

However, I'm still concerned about the IMPRINTING issue (which I think is still there whether you vault once or twice per week).

You see, my main point isn't "How OFTEN are you going to do ring and highbar drills compared to vault practices?".

Instead, it's "What're ya gonna do???" (a rhetorical meatgrinder/motivational question)

Don't take this lightly - IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION!!!

Kirk

p.s. Your swing speed on the rings and highbar really SUCKS!!!

[joebro391]

your steps get longer as you approach the box

you mean shorter, right??? are you out of it today?? that'd be your second typeo in 2 hours haha but i'll deffinately try that drill you mentioned. tomorrow i'm at the track, doing pole runs. I will work mostly on turning over my legs faster and increasing cadence through the run

What will it take to get onto a college team? (Are you thinking with scholarship, or without?) Can anyone advise 6P of this?

15'6, is the bare-minumum, around here. and I CAN do that, before spring season (that's 5 months). and with my grades (from the college coaches that i've been talking to) i can get partial athletic and partial academic = full ride (did i mention that i have really high grades?? hahaha)

It sounds to me like you're desparate for getting a phenomenal PR before Xmas that's just going to miraculously give you that free ride to college that you're DREAMING of.

It's not anything TOO crazy, it's just an extra 6 - 12 inches. and i know, that i can do that, in the next 2 1/2 months.

I do admire your present determination, but read my lips ... "THERE'S NO SHORTCUTS TO VAULTING HIGH. DON'T EXPECT OVERNIGHT RESULTS! SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE!

The Hallowe'en Vault is NOT an important meet, no matter how "fun" it will be. Pick a more practical time to peak - SOMETIME NEXT YEAR. Then work towards that.

i'm not expecting this to be an 'overnight' thing. i believe my goals are very realistic. 14'6 - 15' by January, 15'6 by march, and then wherever i go from then, til the end of June. the way i've been jumping and training, i believe those goals to be VERY realistic. maybe i was not specific enough when i answered your questions before.

If you're a walk-on, the college coaches aren't going to ask what month you made your PR (before or after Xmas). They don't care.

i intend on getting some scholarship money, for vaulting. and i think you're confusing my time-frame a tad. i'm just setting certain goals, as stated above, for a bigger picture. i know coached don't care about what month i jumped my PR in, BUT, what is important, is the deadlines. the track & field scholarship-deadline, is the beggining of April. If i push myself, can i jump an extra foot and a half, within the next 5 1/2 months?? YES I CAN

Question: What's the LOWEST PR that a male PVer has ever had (in recent years) and still got a full ride? Partial ride?

maybe it's a bit different because of my grades, but i've talked in person, to the Princeton University coach, and he said that (paraphrasing) "with my Grade Point Average (3.6 out of 4.0) provided I bump up my SAT scores a little bit, if i can Jump between 15' - 16', they'll pay for whatever i don't have" and that's the second best school in the country. i get the results back from my second SAT, in 2 days, so that's almost a 'make or break' right there {crosses fingers and gulps}

For the time being, I suppose this is all a moot point, since you've just found an extra day to do gymnastics. I would also do running that day, for obvious reasons. In general, try to either excercise your whole body every training day, or alternate upper body / lower body days - "it depends". But I leave the specifics of your training schedule to others.

[/quote]
i'm still working out some kinks, but for instance, me workout schedule is this, this week (sunday - sunday)
SUNDAY 10-19: vaulting, working on strait-poling to 5 Lefts
MONDAY 10-20: gymnastics
TUESDAY 10-21: Track, pole runs and sand-pit drills (and i'm gonna kick a soccer ball around for a while)
WEDNESDAY 10-22: DAY OFF
THURSDAY 10-23: track, pole runs and sand-pit drills (probably more kicking of the soccer ball around)
FRIDAY 10-24: DAY OFF (occasionally a plyo workout)
SATURDAY 10-25: gymnastics
SUNDAY 10-26: Vaulting

FINALLY:

p.s. Your swing speed on the rings and highbar really SUCKS!!!

thanks Kirk, i hate you too haha

- 6P

[powerplant42]

...and I'm sure we can resolve it amiably.

Riiiiiight...

HAVE YOU READ KB'S 'Log' POST YET!? I started mine today, and it feels great, even just to have one day! I will (hopefully) have thousands of entries in a few years. In a few months, after the indoor season, I will post some of my entries that I believe to be 'important'/'good'.

However, I'm still concerned about the IMPRINTING issue (which I think is still there whether you vault once or twice per week).

You see, my main point isn't(mistake?) "How OFTEN are you going to do ring and highbar drills compared to vault practices?".

Mmm... I would say that... IT DEPENDS!

It depends on his 'limiting factor'; currently, his swing really 'SUCKS', so more high bar and rings, less real vaulting... how much/little of each DEPENDS on how 'limiting' his 'limiting factor' is compared to the rest of his vault. That is up to 6P and his 'real' coach(es).

Back on the topic of your approach...

no you wont be out.. if you turn the steps over. count the rhythem out loud. your steps get longer as you approach the box. heres a challenge. keep moving in 3 inches a time, and turning over faster. i bet you will find you can move in and your step will actually come out. one day in practice i did this and moved in 18 inches and kept the same take off step, mid only came in about 7 or 8 inches. and i ended up going up poles because i was taller and faster at the end.

SEE!? There's a 5.62/3 meter vaulter telling you to 'try it'! Listen up! It is all just simple(ish) 'MID science'.

Keep the videos coming, and begin to record your SPECIFIC goals in your new training log!

that's the second best school in the country.

Well THAT is all relative... (It depends.)

(And yes, of course you must talk with the specific schools' coaches, THAT is most relevant.)

Oh, and I just thought that this was pretty ironic:

your second type in 2 hours

[VTechVaulter]

haha. no no

im saying YOUR STEPS get longer... not that they should. thats what currently is happening. your aim should be for them to get quicker as you get to the box

[joebro391]

haha. no no

im saying YOUR STEPS get longer... not that they should. thats what currently is happening. your aim should be for them to get quicker as you get to the box

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH haha

gotchya!!!

[KirkB]

7. What do you think I mean by "imprinting"?

um...i think you mean: by repetition, my 'muscle memory' will be able to do the "act" without much conscious thought

Sorry PP, I just can't help but fix your typos. It's the perfectionism in me. Good vaulters are perfectionists when it comes to their technique.

OK, good so far. "repetition ... muscle memory ... without much conscious thought"

1. Now is imprinting good, or is it bad? (PP, shhhhh!)

8. How long did it take you to become a good tumbler?

hmmm...that's a toughy. i always used to do crazy acrobatic stuff (like hanging for the monkey bars and age 3) or doing handstands and cartwheels in elementary school. and then ... i just had a lot of power, and it was just a matter of not being afraid and going for the flip. that's how i started vaulting. my head coach saw me do a flip in gym class and said "yea...he's a vaulter" hehehe

OK, good so far. "... age 3 ... elementary school ... power ... not afraid ..."

2. So if I have a lot of power in my legs, and I'm fearless, then I too will be able to do a standing front somi?

3. So if I lift heavy weights to get even MORE power in my legs, then my standing front somi will be even more perfect? (PP, shhhh!)

4. If I cut my somi speed of rotation in half, what would I land on? (PP, shhhhhh!)

Now back to my ORIGINAL question:

5. In your standing back somi, HOW were you able to land on your feet?

Kirk

[KirkB]

... And KB, I am going to put up my sand vaulting very soon... I can't wait for your post forever ... Expect my first video forum post to be up within the week! )

I'm looking forward to your vids!

But tell me, how am I slowing you down from publishing them? I've never ever chimed in on anything related to your sand vaulting ... have I?

I have most of my short run / long run exposé out of the way, and I just have to tie up a few loose ends (coming soon - to a thread near you), but you still don't have your highbar up yet.

I thought THAT was our only bet.

Kirk

[rainbowgirl28]

Kirk, there are a million posts on here about vaulting in college, there's no need for others to repost all the same advice here.

[powerplant42]

Sorry PP, I just can't help but fix your typos.

Again, very ironic.

[KirkB]

Sorry PP, I just can't help but fix your typos.[/quote="KirkB"]
Again, very ironic.

Ha! ha! I had to re-read that 3 times before I saw my typo! Nice catch!

But what's REALLY funny is that now YOU have a typo in quoting MY typo!

I was tempted to plant another typo in this post, just to keep the joke rolling, but this ludicracy just has to stop!

Kirk

[powerplant42]

Unfortunately, it hasn't yet... 6P tried to fix his typo with:

your second typeo in 2 hours