XC ruin pole vault?

[KirkB]

I agree with RainbowGirl and SinCity.

And I agree with PP when he says "It depends."

There's another thread ( "XC ruin pole vault?" ) http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=15420 that offers additional advice about XC for pole vaulters.

This is a controversial topic and there's no single right answer.

Although PV is a very specialized sport (event), it requires similar overall fitness and coordination to what other sports provide - including XC.

Generally, good high-school pole vaulters are (or need to be) good all-around athletes, with a willingness to train hard and an interest in multiple sports or track events. This includes sports and events that excercise your legs (sprints, XC, LJ, HJ, TJ, soccer, basketball, and almost any other sport), and upper body strength & coordination (gymnastics is perfect).

I never specialized in PV until I went to university. I loved playing HS basketball so much that I would never ever give that up, just to be a better vaulter. To be honest, if I had a choice between a BB scholarship and a PV scholarship, I would have picked BB. I just wasn't that good of a player, but I loved "teamwork".

That doesn't mean I didn't also love PV. I loved both sports. I just had to compromise - to find the right balance between the sports that I was interested in, and the sports that I did well in.

So my advice is that you should try lots of different sports (and events) in HS - including XC (if that's what interests you, or if you think it's a good off-season sport and you can stand the monotony of "just running").

As SinCity said, that's how you find out what your best sport (or event) is. And if these other sports help your conditioning during the off-season (which I think they do), then all the better!

Kirk

[birdi_gurlie]

Have you read my post on the 'screwed' thread?

Please realize you are speaking in terms relative to your 'group'... sure, you could have two guys jump 10'6" and be excellent cross country runners, but could you have two excellent cross country runners that jump 16'+? It is extremely unlikely that that will happen, especially in high school. Besides, you did not even say that they were any good at long distance running. What does that say to you?

There are anomolies, of course. Whoever you're referring to as the female sprinter might possibly be one. But how good at cross country is she? "FAST" means a lot of things... What are her best 5k times?

Ummm....the guys are good at distance. Well, they were both decent last year. One doesnt do it this year, but the other is in the top 7 and I think he's under 20, if not 19. But I'm not sure because I don't memorize times.

I don't know her best times...I know she ran a a low 23 at states last year, but I'm not sure what her times are this year.

[xjoeyx]

i have a friend jamaal who runs 100,200, and 400 and came out for xc his first meet was like 23 and hes down to 18:40 now. hes just trying to get a track scholarship

[VaultPurple]

I think the correct question here is not weather you can be good at xc and pole vault. Because there is no doubt in my mind a guy built like alan web could take up pole vault and hit 15,16+ with a few years of training. The question that really matters is would you be better at pole vault if you had not ran xc. And that in my opinion is a clear yes. But in high school if ur not looking to win any nationals and just want to have fun, then go for both. I went sub 18 in 5k and know a guy that ran low 16s and we both jumped 13'6. So on the high school level you can be "competative" at both. Its just a matter if you want to really excell at one or the other. Because I know if this guy concentrated on pv he would have gone a lot higher, because he would use like a 14' pole right at his body weight, take a few opening height jumps, go run a 4:30 mile, come back and finish vaulting, then go run a sub 10 2mile.

[KYLE ELLIS]

[quote="VaultPurple"]I think the correct question here is not weather you can be good at xc and pole vault. Because there is no doubt in my mind a guy built like alan web could take up pole vault and hit 15,16+

Do any of you people do any type of research or reading, I have heard some of the most ignorant statements on PV training in the CC forums.

[powerplant42]

Kyle, I'm letting this one go... you and I both know the scientific disadvantages of doing cross country, but others won't believe them or just don't care enough about the effects to change their ways, which is fine (like I've said before, "it depends"). They won't jump as high as they could, and that's their choice, as long as they're informed (which they have been) about these disadvantages. We are both beginning to waste our time with this. The pertinent information has been posted again and again, and yet people still will ask the same questions, A because they are lazy, B because they think that the laws of science don't apply to them for some reason, and C because they're ignorant of the search button. I will not be posting on the topic again for quite some time, unless something new/strange/exciting happens.

[VaultPurple]

I think the correct question here is not weather you can be good at xc and pole vault. Because there is no doubt in my mind a guy built like alan web could take up pole vault and hit 15,16+

Do any of you people do any type of research or reading, I have heard some of the most ignorant statements on PV training in the CC forums.

Im really not seeing what ur getting at rather than just trying to start crap with people... because if you would read my entire post you would see that i was arguing that xc does hurt your pole vaulting ability. I saw from personal experience how much sprint speed I lost after a long xc season.

And I have done my research and nothing about my statement was ignorant, unless something was mispelled because i openly admit i suck ast spelling. Look at Webb, he is over 6 foot tall, is pretty built for a long distance runner, and can most likely run 46ish in the 400. Show me an athleate like that any day and I would take my chances with trying to turn him into a 16+ vaulter. There have been guys with far less athletic ability and speed go that high before.

Now if a guy like Webb started pole vaulting instead of running xc when he was in school, then yes he would have a much higher potential to vault higher, but he could still be pretty decient with just the speed of a mear distance runner. You are truly underestimating the kick some of these distance guys have. Some 5k guys go 11.xx for the last 100m of their 5ks.

[KirkB]

Kyle, I'm letting this one go... The pertinent information has been posted again and again, and yet people still will ask the same questions,

A because they are lazy,

B because they think that the laws of science don't apply to them for some reason, and

C because they're ignorant of the search button.

I will not be posting on the topic again for quite some time, unless something new/strange/exciting happens.

PP, once again I find myself in disagreement with you.

You say "I'm letting this one go", but then you insist on getting your one final twist of the knife into the debate. You insist on "the final word", before you "let this go".

I really do like your stock answer of "It all depends", and this is one of those debates where that answer is appropriate.

I'm a little offended, by your characterization of everyone that disagrees with your viewpoint is either an A, a B, or a C.

I'm not lazy , I believe in the laws of science , and I'm not ignorant of the search button.

I just happen to have a different opinion than you about this, because my perspective and experience is different than yours. Is that so bad?

You may not have been pointing your characterizations at me personally, but I speak for all posters on here that aren't lazy, believe in the laws of science, and know how to use the search button.

I believe that we're the overwhelming MAJORITY on this thread. I'm not saying that "the majority wins the debate". Rather, I'm saying that you need to respect the opinions of the majority. Or at least not characterize them as "lazy idiots", when you know they're not.

I hope this is new/strange/exciting enough for a humble retraction.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

Before I 'let it go', I summarized my position, stated some of the pertinent information that has already been presented, and talked about how, in a month or so, there will probably be another thread started on this same topic (due to A/B/C). Most here would not start that thread, but there are those that inevitably will. I will not be participating in the discussion unless something 'new', 'exciting', or 'interesting' happens... Perhaps I came across too negatively when I said:

but others won't believe them or just don't care enough about the effects to change their ways, which is fine

What I meant was that some people do not train year round because they want to do other things, which is fine! That's their choice, and I totally respect it and understand it (having done it myself before). However, I still stand by the scientific disadvantages, because they are pretty solid: if you do cross country, you are ultimately going to be limiting yourself (by however little or much), due to things like muscle type, stride adaptation, and the time lost that could have been used doing pole runs, plant drills, etc.

I am going to refrain from anymore posts in any 'xc/pole vault' discussions now, but I'm not trying to get the 'final word', I just think that I'm starting to waste my time by presenting the same arguments again and again, when the thread starters could/should just do some research (A/B) or accept that they are biologically/physiologically very similar to everyone else (C). I did not ever say that anyone that disagrees with me or Kyle is A, B, or C. I'm sorry if I came across that way, especially to you KB, because I respect you SO much for what you do on here.

[rainbowgirl28]

Kyle and PowerPlant, I am pretty sure neither one of you have ever been a high school coach. I think once you get into that environment (if you ever do) you'll find that it is very difficult to make reality match the science that you know on paper. I suggest you both stick with coaching college where you can control most of the variables. You will always be disappointed at how hard it is to find kids who love it and are willing to work as hard as you.

What I have learned:
- High school rules in nearly every state make it hard for you to work with your athletes year-round.
- It's usually harder than you think to find a place to vault in the offseason. Even if you have a place, inevitably you will have a period of time when you can't use it.
- College rules and college administrators make it hard to use their facilities.
- You will almost never find kids who come close to loving the sport as much as you do.
- Even when you think they do, they'll often flake out once the spring or summer is over.
- The majority of areas of the country do not have pole vaulting available to high schoolers in the fall and winter.
- Even when they do, it is hard for a lot of kids to make it. Some can't get a ride, some don't have the money, and most just aren't dedicated enough.
- The majority of your vaulters will either do other sports in the fall and winter or they'll sit on their butt. Probably the third most common thing is they will only get in the weight room and body build. You don't understand how rare a kid like you is who is willing to do pole vault specific training in the offseason.
- If you are a high school coach, and you have a kid willing to do all the right stuff... the rules in your state probably prohibit you from doing anything sport specific with them like pole runs, sand vaulting, etc.



You both have very good scientific knowledge. I suggest you only coach at the college level or above so that you can control your athletes' actions year round. Otherwise you will just be disappointed all the time.

[KirkB]

PP, apology accepted.

RG, you hit the nail on the head.

My last 3 words: "It all depends."

Kirk

[KYLE ELLIS]

Becca I have coached both college and hs kids.. I have done the camp at eiu the last 3 years which is either hs or jr high kids. I don't think anyone asked if you would find kids that love the sport as much as you, or if they will falke etc. etc. etc..... I believe the original question was will CC have a negative impact on pole vault ability, and the answer is simply YES!!! That is all i am saying. People have free will to do whatever they please, so anyone who wants to run CC, can....

But Becca perhaps there is a kid out there who dreams of being an elite vaulter and wants to do everything they can to achieve that. Then they should know CC will hinder them.

And Becca I kinda felt like you were taking a shot at me, I have worked with hs kids since I was in hs. I am sorry you had bad experiences with kids, but don't take shots at me. I have volunteered many hours to help others in this sport and never tried to force them into anything, I was just there to help.