Metaphysics – The Fifth Dimension of Pole Vaulting?

[KirkB]

Metaphysics – The Fifth Plane of Pole Vaulting? (After 3D Space + Time)

On the Bryde Bend thread today, volteur raised this idea …

… to throw another idea out there - i don't think physics is enough to explain pole vaulting (unless we are talking quantum physics). Physics describes our four dimensional world very accurately as Newton did with his Laws, but as we know this idea has been superceded thanks to Einstein's and his theory of relativity. Three physical dimensions (length, breadth, height) plus time. But all this does is explain where the physical bits should be and when.

To go further into what is really going on we need the field of metaphysics, and it is this field i believe Petrov is personally working with. It is also inherent in Agapit's explanation so i feel he is operating from that place as well. Metaphysics takes into account the individual’s intention and how that drives what is occurring on the physical plane.

bit out there! Anyone agree?

Yes – I agree … that it’s a “bit out there!”.

Maybe I don’t understand. I understand "space" and "time", and I understand “vaulter’s intent”. Can you perhaps enlighten me as to how this all ties together, and what Einstein has to do with it?

Maybe you can you provide any of Einstein’s quotes or references on what this means?

I have read the Pole Vault Manifesto diatribe on this topic, so I don’t want my Bryde Bend thread to get off-topic talking about it – thus this new thread.

I hope even in this new thread, we can “keep it civil”.

But I’m interested enough to discuss it – if there’s something substantive to it, and if there’s something that can apply to pole vaulting – even if it’s just a theory.

Thanks!

Kirk

[golfdane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadows_of_the_Mind

One could argue, that there is no such thing as an action. That EVERYTHING is a reaction......

Unless you go into the world of quantum physics......... (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle)

Unless we are able to shape things on a quantum level, is there no such thing as free will. Everything that happens in our brain, is purely chemical and physical, and as such bound by well established laws and rules.......

However, we need to believe in free will and the ability to shape things, or sink into despair and oblivion (but that would also be predestined or determined by physics ....). And unless we are gifted with the ability to bend the rules of physics (highly unlikely ), must it be at quantum levels........

As such, it fits the description here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics
"subjects that are beyond the physical world"

It's scary and mindnumbing....

[Barto]

Everything you need to know about metaphysics is explained in the "Redneck Vaulter" thread:

Tim McMichael wrote:
"... If one of the primary elements of your coach's vault theory relies on prayer and the existence of guardian angels.
If you have, on more than one occasion, fallen back on this idea."

[volteur]

Everything you need to know about metaphysics is explained in the "Redneck Vaulter" thread:

Tim McMichael wrote:
"... If one of the primary elements of your coach's vault theory relies on prayer and the existence of guardian angels.
If you have, on more than one occasion, fallen back on this idea."

hahaha that is one awesome thread - And Tim McMc seems to be the leading authority! Impossible to be serious now so that will have to await another time.

Gotta keep reading (cheers barto!)

[golfdane]

Everything you need to know about metaphysics is explained in the "Redneck Vaulter" thread:

Tim McMichael wrote:
"... If one of the primary elements of your coach's vault theory relies on prayer and the existence of guardian angels.
If you have, on more than one occasion, fallen back on this idea."

ROFLMAO

I wonder if "visualizing" falls into that category. I'm a believer in visualizing. The evidence for it working is circumstantial (at least to my knowledge). I use it myself, and repeat elements of a sequence or an entire sequence, thinking, that it learns my brain to fire the individual muscles in the correct order and the right timing......

It brought me to a golf handicap of 9.8.....

[KirkB]

Well, there's some good-natured scoffing going on in this thread, which is to be expected, I guess.

But rather than pooh-pooh Volteur's idea, let's give him an opportunity to collect his thoughts and explain what he really means.

I don't pretend to understand Einstein, but I know that he's smarter than me. I just don't get his "Theory of Relativity" - it's too deep for me. I did spend a few minutes last weekend googling it and trying to understand it, but to no avail. So does that mean that I should pooh-pooh him? I don't think so. From what I understand, he was a brilliant man!

I don't mean to put Volteur in the same company - far from it. Volteur's a mere mortal like the rest of us (I think!). But if he does come up with something "good" that we can use here re metaphysics and pole vaulting, then I'll be very impressed, and we should all congratulate him for daring to be different.

I'm just saying that we need to keep an open mind. I believe that that's the scientific way. I'm no scientist either, but I do like to keep an open mind - to discover new ideas. If you close your mind, you prevent it from learning.

Keep the skepticism coming, if you feel the urge, and by all means have fun with this topic, but let's see if we can either accept or reject Volteur's "theory" (once he's composed his thoughts) on a scientific basis. From what I understand, Einstein was a scientist, and proved his theories thru scientific means. He wasn't "out there".

Kirk

[volteur]

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein

I think that is a good starting point

(ps i was so excited when i saw you put the 5th dimension in the title - it's tricky to explain but that is how i see it as well - the 5th!)
(pps Tim McMichael you are a comic genius and achtungpv, i laughed almost as much)

[volteur]

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein

I think that is a good starting point

this didn't seem to fly very far but i would still be keen to continue it

Golfdane, Kirk? how do we go about this?

Relativity and it's application to pole vault.

Golfdane you said this "I wonder if "visualizing" falls into that category. I'm a believer in visualizing. The evidence for it working is circumstantial (at least to my knowledge)"

I'm also a believer and i would probably go a further step and say visualising is a very real thing, it was essential for me in training for decathlon and was something i used in flotation tanks initially to great success whilst injured. My major in Sports Psychology also heavily supports the idea. Is it metaphysics - yes i believe so as metaphysics like everything else begins in the mind and is transferred into the body. Metaphysics is worked out in the mind off the kinesthetic memory of the actions of the body.

Golfdane you also referred to freewill and fate i guess (or action-reaction)

So i ask you which began the process? Free will or fate? Chicken and the egg syndrome. This leads all the way to the beginning of the universe - what began the universe - we see it as the big bang. What came before the big bang? And what became before that?

Also along this line of thinking is ' what is beyond the edge of the universe? And then again what is beyond that? And beyond that? and ...

[powerplant42]

I hope that if that's where heaven is, there are some runways !

[Pogo Stick]

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein

I think that is a good starting point

this didn't seem to fly very far but i would still be keen to continue it

Golfdane, Kirk? how do we go about this?

Relativity and it's application to pole vault.

May I?
Shortly: faster you run, lower the bar!
If you run fast enough, the pole looks shorter to your coach who is staying aside and watching you. To you, the bar will look lower than it really is. You will be then more confident because it does not look as high as you do thought.
When you clear the bar your coach will think: "He has really improved push-off".
The cheerleaders will think "Wow! Who is that guy with big pole? He is soooo cute!".

For details and scientific explanation check this topic:
http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16034

[volteur]

May I?
Shortly: faster you run, lower the bar!
If you run fast enough, the pole looks shorter to your coach who is staying aside and watching you. To you, the bar will look lower than it really is. You will be then more confident because it does not look as high as you do thought.
When you clear the bar your coach will think: "He has really improved push-off".
The cheerleaders will think "Wow! Who is that guy with big pole? He is soooo cute!".

For details and scientific explanation check this topic:
http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16034

ah man you already had this stuff going on a few weeks earlier - strange huh that i didn't know -maybe it is time to go there in the world of pole vault.

is the guy cute coz he is going so fast he is starting to blur - the facial details are not so detailed? And i know i'm better looking to the chicks when i'm beer blurred out a bit.

[volteur]

[edit version 2]
ok to continue this seriously now

relativity refers to time. As Einstein indicated with his quote the way we perceive time can change. One experience seems to take forever (when we are waiting for something ) and another very little time at all. Thus time is relative and is dependent on our state of mind at that time.

how this relates to pole vault and just about anything else is that as you gain experience and increased skill at a task you gain more time in both doing it and perceiving it.

It is all about our perceptual state.

When we have more time we can look at or into things more clearly, closely and ultimately more deeply.

This is the essence of relativity in pole vaulting.

Fortunately, we can also enhance this 'slowing down' of time simply by attempting to slow down our mind. Breathing more slowly is the way to achieve this.

The way our mind is sped up and therefore has less 'time' to perceive what is going on is generally through the fear response. But the fear response is a necessary thing as it keeps us alive as it did out forefathers who had to battle certain animals with large and scary teeth.

However, if your life is not on the line, as it isn't or shouldn't be in pole vault training, then we need to be aware of the fear aspect and actively diminish it.

(still very blah but hey i think it's better than it was - comments, critiques, queries please)