The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby vaultmd » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:59 pm

KirkB wrote:But since you asked, yeh, I'll post something on that thread sometime soon. The shortest guy I ever saw vault in my day was Kjell Isaakson at 5'7". Back then, we never realized that lack of height was a disadvantage, because Kjell was ranked #1 in 1971 and #2 in 1972, and was setting WRs left and right - indoors and out.


Kjell used to come to our place at Irvine (and before that I saw him often at El Camino College when Dick Tomlinson was there) with Hans Laquerquist (sp?). He's closer to 5'9"-5'10" despite what any official record might say. He was faster than most would give him credit for. He had some amazing jumps, especially that one at UCLA on Ora (sp?) McMurray's tape.

However, my old training partner, Don Baird, was 5'7".

There was a huge difference in the heights of Baird and Isaakson.

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby volteur » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:09 pm

vaultmd wrote:
KirkB wrote:But since you asked, yeh, I'll post something on that thread sometime soon. The shortest guy I ever saw vault in my day was Kjell Isaakson at 5'7". Back then, we never realized that lack of height was a disadvantage, because Kjell was ranked #1 in 1971 and #2 in 1972, and was setting WRs left and right - indoors and out.


Kjell used to come to our place at Irvine (and before that I saw him often at El Camino College when Dick Tomlinson was there) with Hans Laquerquist (sp?). He's closer to 5'9"-5'10" despite what any official record might say. He was faster than most would give him credit for. He had some amazing jumps, especially that one at UCLA on Ora (sp?) McMurray's tape.

However, my old training partner, Don Baird, was 5'7".

There was a huge difference in the heights of Baird and Isaakson.


Don Baird the Australian? Are you Australian as well?

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:31 pm

volteur wrote:
Don Baird the Australian? Are you Australian as well?


LOL :D

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby volteur » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:42 pm

rainbowgirl28 wrote:
volteur wrote:
Don Baird the Australian? Are you Australian as well?


LOL :D

Now i'm confused. Am i being made fun of? :confused: :( :dazed: ;)

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:44 pm

volteur wrote:
rainbowgirl28 wrote:
volteur wrote:
Don Baird the Australian? Are you Australian as well?


LOL :D

Now i'm confused. Am i being made fun of? :confused: :( :dazed: ;)


No, but you've just never met Wilson. I don't think anyone would mistake him for being Australian. He's American and... Taiwanese?

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby volteur » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:17 pm

rainbowgirl28 wrote:
No, but you've just never met Wilson. I don't think anyone would mistake him for being Australian. He's American and... Taiwanese?


ta, worked out my mistake - from the Aussie all time list

5.53 Don Baird V 290551 1 Long Beach,USA 16 Apr 77

and the only Victorian above him on that list is Hooker, so up to a few years ago he was the Victorian record holder (for almost 30 years). Must have been Aussie record holder up until Altius and Arkell. Altius what year did Simon break Baird's record?

so maybe the reason he was so far ahead of his time in Oz was his time spent in the US.

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby KirkB » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:44 am

Comparison of Isaakson and Duplantis

According to “Who’s Who in Pole Vaulting III”, Dan Baird is an Australian that won the 1977 NCAA Indoor for Long Beach State, so I guess that accounts for his presence in California. It has him at 1.70m 72Kg (5-7 159 lbs), which is half an inch shorter and 9 lbs heavier than Isaakson. There’s a strong possibility that WWPV3 is slightly off, as it has Duplantis at 1.70m 61Kgs (5-7 134), but we know from Duplantis himself that he was 5-6. If you believe WWPV3, all 3 of them were within a half inch of each other, but their weight varied quite widely – from 134 to 159 lbs. We could settle this debate by simply agreeing that they were all short, but had distinctly difference physiques.

I’d like to briefly compare my vaulting technique to Kjell Isaakson’s, then later to Greg’s. I can’t find any vids of Isaakson, so I’ll just go by memory …

Kjell was a former gymnast that turned to pole vaulting. He was also a very good high jumper – for his height. He jumped 6’6”, and (according to WWPV3), he’s 1.74m and 68kg. That’s 5-7 ½ and 150 lbs. He looked “wiry” – not muscular. More like a highbar specialist than a rings specialist, although I have no idea what his best gymnastic events were. But I would guess highbar.

There’s a few things that I remember about Kjell, from the few times I saw him vault in person in 1971-72.

One was that he was very fast down the runway. Not as fast as Greg, I don’t think, but fast in comparison to almost everyone else back in the early ‘70s.

Another was that he had a very early plant and jumped hard on his takeoff. Back then, we never used the term “free takeoff”, but I’m pretty sure that Kjell’s takeoff would classify as “free”. I wish I could look at vids to check this, but I don’t see how he could jump off the ground so well if the pole hit the box before he jumped. Back then, we didn’t make a big deal about “free takeoff” – it was just what everyone strived to do, at least in my circle of vaulting buddies in the Pac-8 and NCAA meets, and from the film we saw of the UCLA vaulters of the late 1960s.

Kjell immediately swung after the pole hit the box. He didn’t have a noticeable “C” position, or any delay whatsoever before he swung. And he swung from the top hand – he didn’t hinge from the hips. Back then, I didn’t consider that very good technique, but I’m more tolerant of alternate techniques today. For him, with his short legs and arms, he could swing to an invert very, very quickly with a fairly straight body – not too unlike the way short gymnasts can execute highbar or rings moves better/quicker than taller gymnasts. I think Agapit would like Kjell’s technique a lot – it follows his 6.40 model much closer than any other vaulter that I’m aware of. Even closer than Bubka! Bubka bent at the hips more than Isaakson.

A final comment that I have about Kjell’s technique was that he didn’t have any passive parts to it. It was truly a “continuous chain” - a harmonious motion – from plant/takeoff thru to a really, really good handstand. He gripped about 15-6 – which was really high for anyone back then, let alone a shorty – and he had a quick bend. Not at all like the slow bend of mine. If he gripped 15-6 on his 18-9 practice vault, that would be a 47 inch handstand!!!

It’s hard to really criticize Kjell’s technique compared to mine, when he was so much different and more successful, but let’s just say that I didn’t have his wheels, nor the shorter arms and legs of a gymnast (for quicker rotation about the top hand fulcrum), so I had to find other ways to go higher.

My choice was to add more energy to the pole by my Whip and Invert vault parts, whereas Kjell – after an excellent jump off the ground – got his rotatioinal speed as soon as the pole hit the box, and then swung upside down in one continuous chain, carrying that thru to his excellent handstand.

Yep, he was quite the vaulter, with a unique technique that seemed to be custom-made for his unique physique!

In my next post, I’ll compare Duplantis to myself and Isaakson …

Kirk
Last edited by KirkB on Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby dj » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:22 am

good morning

you are dead on Kirk...

Kjell had the "bubka" technique before bubka... the only difference in "style" was created by the pole design. If Kjell could have had the poles Bubka jumped on he would have jumped 19'...

i have the paper version of one of Kjells jumps and have used that as a "model" since 1974!! 33 years.. damn i'm getting old.

This was the "model" used for Earl and Tully.

great stuff.. and i would like to thank Tom Tellez for giving us this "model" so we can have these conversations.

"Run Fast - Hold High - And use a big stick!" Guy Kochel.

dj

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby volteur » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:54 am

sorry DJ and Kirk, do you hear what you are saying? Bubka before Bubka?

fair enough certain elements may have been similar but to state your claims like that ... quite out there!

perhaps there is a jump of Kjell somewhere so i can form an opinion myself. Can you point me in the direction of a vid?

volteur

and to be a little congtroversial - if you guys don't get the idea that the back-uprise action is an integral part of the takeoff then you don't get Bubka and what Agapait is explaining (maybe i am getting ahead of myself in assuming that I do and maybe it is time for Agapit to return and provide a comment or two.)
:eek:

there is of course the triple hinge

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby vaultmd » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:11 am

rainbowgirl28 wrote:
volteur wrote:
rainbowgirl28 wrote:
volteur wrote:
Don Baird the Australian? Are you Australian as well?


LOL :D

Now i'm confused. Am i being made fun of? :confused: :( :dazed: ;)


No, but you've just never met Wilson. I don't think anyone would mistake him for being Australian. He's American and... Taiwanese?


Cantonese. Just trained in and competed for Taiwan for a short period of my life.

If Kjell were 5'8" that would have made him my height. There's NO WAY he was that short. I was around him a lot.

The very first time I met Simon Arkell, he and Simon Shirley were crashing at Don's place when they were in college in New Mexico and visiting southern CA. Don helped Simon a lot.

Don's technique came from time he spent training in Poland and Germany before coming to school at Long Beach.

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby dj » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:25 am

hello

my point was that Kjell's technique was modeled from physics... which is how i view the Petrov/Bubka model.

this is a great thread and has really shown how as coaches and athletes we can see the same things but 'describe" them a little different. Sometimes our athletes become "immune" to our vocabulary.. another coach walks up.. makes the same point but in different words and tone.. the athlete “get it” and wonders why I had not said that before.

It boils down to physics..

dj

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby volteur » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:15 am

dj wrote:hello

my point was that Kjell's technique was modeled from physics... which is how i view the Petrov/Bubka model.

this is a great thread and has really shown how as coaches and athletes we can see the same things but 'describe" them a little different. Sometimes our athletes become "immune" to our vocabulary.. another coach walks up.. makes the same point but in different words and tone.. the athlete “get it” and wonders why I had not said that before.

It boils down to physics..

dj


good points - both.

but to throw another idea out there - i don't think physics is enough to explain pole vaulting (unless we are talking quantum physics). Physics describes our four dimensional world very accurately as Newton did with his Laws, but as we know this idea has been superceded thanks to Einstein's and his theory of relativity. Three physical dimensions (length, breadth, height) plus time. But all this does is explain where the physical bits should be and when.

To go further into what is really going on we need the field of metaphysics, and it is this field i believe Petrov is personally working with. It is also inherent in Agapit's explanantion so i feel he is operating from that place as well. Metaphysics takes into account the individuals intention and how that drives what is occurring on the physical plane.

bit out there! Anyone agree?

Vaultmd - Shirley was a character and my predecessor as the National record holder in the deca, but i only met him a couple of times and competed against him once. Do you have any recollections of the man?
Last edited by volteur on Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.


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