The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

This is a forum to discuss advanced pole vaulting techniques. If you are in high school you should probably not be posting or replying to topics here, but do read and learn.
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KirkB
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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby KirkB » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:00 pm

Volteur, you wrote:
volteur wrote:I bet he wishes like the rest of us he could have his 23 year old body back with his current mind.


... to which I replied:
Keep in mind that I have no regrets – I did the best with what Coach Shannon and I knew at the time. But there’s something in my training that I kick myself today for not noticing.

I'm on vacation right now, and for my vacation, I chose to travel to the interior of Washington, where I caught up with Coach Ken Shannon at his retirement residence - after 34 years. We talked about the high pole carry (which apparently Bill Bowerman was quite inquisitive to Shannon about when he saw me doing it in 1971 - he wanted to know what the hell Coach was up to!), but we didn't talk about any other aspect of my (our) technique. We just ran out of time, and there were so many other things we had to chat about. It was a great nostalgia trip for me though, and I was glad to see Coach still in good health.

I'll disclose my new-found knowledge in the next week or so. I want to give you a chance at conjecture, so I'm laying down a few hints. And yes, my last post is heading towards my revelation.

Kirk
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby powerplant42 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:40 am

I will be waiting in extreme anticipation! Only wheat please! :D
"I run and jump, and then it's arrrrrgh!" -Bubka

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby volteur » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:56 am

Kirk you are truly one of a kind - in all the good ways - it would be a benefit to vaulting in general if you were to become a coach now i think

To be really general as i'm short on time, I think the part of your vault that you emphasise is the part that held you back. Simply because it became an over-emphasis and in a situation like being in the air on a pole, a balanced situation - an over-emphasis on any one direction takes away from this balance. So without being specific - i think an increase in balance was possible through de-emphasising the split a little and placing the focus on continuity instead of the split.

love your work

flow

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby KirkB » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:01 pm

volteur wrote:... I think the part of your vault that you emphasise is the part that held you back. ... a balanced situation - an over-emphasis on any one direction takes away from this balance. ...

Volteur, thanks for the kind words.

I'm also short on time today - I'm traveling right now, and it's checkout time (wife waiting patiently). You're spot on re "balance". However, as I unravel this in the next week or so, you'll see that the emphasis on kicking the trail leg back isn't what I'll be "de-emphasizing". But you're very close. Stay tuned.

Kirk
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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:19 pm

volteur wrote:Kirk ... it would be a benefit to vaulting in general if you were to become a coach now i think.

Well, now that you mention it, I have already agreed to coach Pogo Stick for his Masters comeback career! We have even agreed to split all the prize money! :)

He lives less than an hour away from me, so we'll do that sometime soon, as soon as we find a venue. That will be fun for me.

In the meantime, my coaching is confined to this board. :)
Run. Plant. Jump. Stretch. Whip. Extend. Fly. Clear. There is no tuck! THERE IS NO DELAY!

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:28 pm

Hey Kirk, maybe you can help make the Vancouver Beach Vault happen next year too. We were really sad it didn't happen this year. It was on Jericho Beach and Mike Clapson ran it.

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby KirkB » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:29 pm

To continue on the discussion of how I might change my technique today, if I had it to do over again ...

There's a few sub-topics I'd like to raise about this. The first one is what I'll call "EXTREME POLE VAULTING". It's the sole subject of this post.

There's no doubt that pole vaulting could easily be classified as an extreme sport. It's dangerous, it's difficult, and it takes a dare-devil type athlete to even WANT to vault. But this isn't really what I mean in the context of this post. For this post at least, I have a much narrower meaning.

I thrived on training and vaulting to the extreme. I trained hard - to the extreme. I knew situps were good, so I did 100s of them several times per week - to the extreme. I knew that I needed to have loose shoulders for a smooth "through-the-shoulder" plant, so I stretched my shoulder muscles every day - to the extreme. I felt that the split/hinge/snap/rockback highbar drill was a very close simulation of the split/whip part of the vault, so I did 100s of those too - several times per week. So many and so often that it became "automatic" - my muscle memory took over to the point that I didn't have to remind myself how to swing on the pole. I could just jump/split/hinge/whip as powerfully as I wanted, and all my body parts would go in the right direction - automatically. All I needed to focus on was jumping effort and whipping speed - an extreme jump and an extreme whip. And so on. Everything I did during training was "to the extreme". I'm quite proud of the fact that I left each practice totally exhausting, knowing that I'd trained as hard as I possibly could - that day and every day.

Every meet I entered, I entered it with the thought that I was more prepared than any of my competitors - simply because I had trained harder. I didn't even have to ask them how hard they trained. I knew how hard I trained, and I knew what's humanly possible, so I knew I was ahead of my competition on that basis alone. Now actually, today, I must admit that I competed against some very hard-training vaulters, and most of them were physically more talented than I was. But my mindset was that they might be faster or more talented, but they didn't train as hard. That mindset put me into a mental state of mind during a meet that didn't allow me to concede anything to my competitors. True or untrue, you must BELIEVE that you're better than your competitors, or you'll have a tough time beating them.

You have no idea of the self-satisfaction that this gives me today - 36 years later. Sure, I'd like to have vaulted higher. But I have absolutely no regrets. I surpassed my highest self-expectations.

Just as I trained to the extreme, my Bryde Bend technique was "to the extreme" ...

Some of this is typical of all vaulters, but some of it was "just me".

A high pole carry is good, so carry it as high as possible.

The faster the run, the higher the vault, so run as fast as you can - to the extreme. (This one is rather obvious, but maybe not if you add the clause "under control".)

The stronger the jump off the ground, the better, so jump as hard as you can, as hard as if you're long jumping in a competition - to the extreme.

Driving the chest forwards is good, so drive it as far forwards as you can - to the extreme.

Stretching the trail leg back (a natural consequence of a good jump) is good, so stretch it back as far as you can - to the extreme.

If you lift your trail leg back and up after stretching it, you can get even more of a whip during the hinge part of the vault, so lift your leg up/back even more than just a stretch - to the extreme.

The more your trail leg is stretched (long/straight) during the whip, the better, so stretch it and hinge it entirely straight (no knee bend at all) - to the extreme.

Whipping your trail leg thru to the chord quickly is good, so whip it as fast as you can - to the extreme. Work on the speed of this on high bar and rings - to the extreme.

Getting inverted early is good, so invert as early as humanly possible - to the extreme.

Adding energy to the pole during the extension is good, so PULL LIKE HELL - to the extreme.

I admit to some exageration here, by saying "to the extreme" after each part of my vault. I do that purposely, to make my point. By intent, I vaulted TO THE EXTREME. That was just me.

So, so far, so good, eh? Nothing wrong with what I've said so far?

Actually, there is!

You shouldn't do EVERYTHING to the extreme. For some things, you need to find the best BALANCE. Volteur alluded to this.

As I was writing the description of my Bryde Bend a couple months ago, I began to reflect on what I might have done differently, if I had it to do over again. There were certain parts of my vault that I now realize I was too EXTREME at. I should have had a better BALANCE.

I'm not referring to the "Jump to the Split" part of my vault, nor my whip. Even with my 2008 new-found knowledge, those actually remain as the 2 BEST parts of my vault, even after careful reflection today.

In my next post, I'll compare my short run vault to my long run vault. They were EXTREMELY different. :)

In the meantime, feel free to comment on what I've disclosed thus far.

Kirk
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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby powerplant42 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:06 pm

Driving the chest forwards is good, so drive it as far forwards as you can - to the extreme.


Be careful there... Remember, chest penetration is a passive phase...

Stretching the trail leg back (a natural consequence of a good jump) is good, so stretch it back as far as you can - to the extreme.


I would say 'finish the take-off - to the extreme', but of course, this is where we always seem to disagree! I hope you will comment more on this in your upcoming posts.

Harmonious, extreme, balanced... 3 very good words.
"I run and jump, and then it's arrrrrgh!" -Bubka

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby KirkB » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:39 am

powerplant42 wrote:Remember, chest pentration is a passive phase.

This has a hint of truth, but isn't really true. If you PAUSE in the chest pentration part of your vault, then it's passive. If there's no pause, it's not passive.


powerplant42 wrote:I would say 'finish the take-off - to the extreme' ...

I'm getting to that.

On Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:42 pm:
KirkB wrote:Earlier, I had asked if anyone had the time and access to a high bar to actually try out the drill that I've been ranting about. Powerplant42 volunteered, but I haven't heard back from him yet.


How are you doing on this? It will be much harder for you to understand where I'm coming from re "finishing the takeoff" until you actually experience this high bar drill for yourself. Should I wait a bit longer for you to try it? :)

Kirk
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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby powerplant42 » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:22 am

I will refresh my memory of the feeling within the next 3 or 4 days. :yes:
"I run and jump, and then it's arrrrrgh!" -Bubka

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby Pogo Stick » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:17 pm

KirkB wrote:Well, now that you mention it, I have already agreed to coach Pogo Stick for his Masters comeback career! We have even agreed to split all the prize money! :)

Wow, wow, wait a second! We have not yet agreed how to split all that money. My lawyer is still waiting for reply from your lawyer. :)
-- Pogo

"It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory." W. Edwards Deming

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Re: The Bryde Bend (Jump to the Split)

Unread postby volteur » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:39 am

hey Kirk - i've done too many highbars and rings and ropes to mention working on this active inversion. The high bar is great because you have to work around the bar whereas the rings doesn't have this limitation, but the rings allow more free swinging than the more controlled movements of the highbar. The rope is somewhere in between in feeling but better in the sense that you can angle the rope between your hands to about the correct angle the pole is in.

But here is the thing with the high bar. You can input more energy into your feet than your hands because your hands are fixed all the way to the floor. They can be more passive than they would have to be on the pole. But if the goal is swing to inversion and pull to handstand then the situation is different. Here the hand pressure has to be even with the foot pressure in order to complete the movement. The movement can only really be completed when the vaulter stays balanced throughout the entire movement. Importantly during the inverted part of the pull so enough movement is created to get into handstand. The good gymansts i've seen do this can totally pop into the handstand - like no push!!! So in order to stay balanced enough yet with enough energy to pull far enough to slip into handstand. If the goal on the other hand is to create as much energy into the foot and leg as possible then the hands and upper body don't need to input as much energy. This is fine except the foot emphasised version is not going to get you to the handstand. It is going to create too much out and back energy. From a side on view the center of gravity has to stay underneath the hands to be able to pull - and it has to continuously rotate from the beginning of the pull. The pull begins on the high bar exactly at the same time as the foot 'taps' so the center of gravity is rotating from then in an ideal sense.

I wonder if i'm gonna get slammed for that stuff :confused:


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