Quit Cutting Poles

[Decamouse]

Do the math - figure out what cutting 6 inches does for sail piece relationship to pole length - we did it for test purposes, photo'd the results including bending in machine - it would be a very rare vaulter that could tell the difference - in a blind test - there are more human variables that have a bigger impact - plant, speed, etc. -

[PVJunkie]

So he cut 6" off. He made a softer pole of the same lenth or a stiffer pole (in relation to the wt rating) of a shorter (new actual) length. If he had bought the right length and wt poles to start with he could have left the hacksaw at home. Basically what your doing is changing your grip ht on the pole without getting any better off the ground. If you need 15 ft poles.........get 15 ft poles, dont by 15'6" poles and cut 6" off, its just more $$ and work to get the 15 ft pole you should have bought in the first place.

[Skyin' Brian]

here is a story about cutting poles:
my college had a vaulter about ten years ago that vaulted on cut spirits. he thought he needed a bigger pole for the national meet so because of timing issues the school had the pole shiped to the national meet and it arrived during warm ups. the athlete pulled a hacksaw out of his bag and cut a section out of the bottom of then walked to the back of the runway and took it up.

Then what happened?

that was in warm ups and the pole was to be his big pole so he wasnt quite ready for it so he got rejected. im not sure if used it in the competition or not, but he did take second that day in the d3 national meet.

[Bruce Caldwell]

How did this get started.

Most of this all started when Catapole (Ampro in Anaheim before 1990)They had been experimenting with high and low sails custom made.
Ones for Billy Olson low sail and Steve Smith High sail.
Catapole came up with a weird idea to build 14'6" poles with the same patterns and flex for stock. Then when the poles were ordered they would select a 14'6" 150 and cut 3" off the top and 3" off the bottom to fill the order for a 14'-160. This was not a good thing and many athletes suffered when moving from 14' to 14'6' in this brand, as the poles were very similar. After that most vaulters tried to preorder longer poles with the intent to cut off 6â€Â

[PVJunkie]

Ummm in short............just DONT do it.

[Lord of the Poles]

Selecting the right pole is a matter of trying several brands to see what works for you and can provide you smooth pole bending. We recommend you travel to a vault camp where they have a variety of brands to try at the camp!

not my camp...haha...we primarily use UCS spirits... the only poles that aren't UCS that are here are the ones that other people bring for their own use...

[StickJumper]

I think Bruce nailed what I was getting at in the beginning. I was misinformed in some means, so it didn't come out as nicely as one would have hoped it to, but this explaination of pole progressions as vaulters progress should encourage everyone (myself included) to become aas knowledgable as possible about poles themselves.

[Russ]

As some of you know, I'm especially interested in this topic from a legal perspective. In product liability terms, we would say that a pole that has been cut has been "misused." Thus, on one level, a manufacturer would argue that it should not be liable for injuries caused by a product when it has warned a buyer not to misuse the product in a certain manner, but the buyer has done it anyway. Hence, manufacturers expressly tell vaulters not to cut poles.

Because I'm challenged by the physics discussion in this thread, could someone please give me some general rules about the relative changes made when somone cuts a pole. Are there generalizations that can be made?

For instance, if you have a 14-160, and you cut six inches from the bottom, what - generally speaking do you have? A 13'6-___? 13'6-165? 13'6-170? 13'6-155? Is there some type of "rule of thumb" equation that, for example, one inch cut from the bottom equals 2 lbs. in stiffness (or something)? Suppose you were to cut 12 inches? What would you have? A 13-170? 13-180?

Please help me, I'm math/physics-challenged.

[PVJunkie]

Well Russ, you will be hard pressed to get an answer to that question, UNLESS there are folks out there with their own flex machines and are GOOD at flexing poles. At LEAST you get the point.............if you cut a pole it is not a different version of the original length, it is now an unknown version of a shorter length and not legal for use in competition per the NFHS or the USATF (for youth).

[Russ]

I fully agree, cut poles are illegal under the NFHS rules and youth USATF rules. Not only are they illegal, but a fragile product like a vaulting pole that has been altered in this manner is bound to be dangerous to consumers. And I'll be the first to appear as a Sports Law expert witness on behalf of a manufacturer to help defend a product liability lawsuit if some lame-brained vaulter cuts a pole, gets hurt, and then has the nerve (feel free to substitute another word here if you prefer) to sue the manufacturer.

But I'm very perplexed about why people persist in hacking the glass if they can achieve the same result by simply purchasing a pole the right length and weight-rating from the get-go.

But, Mr. PVJunkie, you've dodged the question. Presumably the blade-weilding jumpers have some method to their madness. Several posters have said things like "if you know what you are doing" or "well, I know what I'm doing". Well, what is it that they know? This all can't be trial and error can it? Elsewise it would be pretty expensive trial and error.

I'm in the process of writing yet another article about liability issues related to pole vaulting. Specifically, I'm researching commercial law and product liability problems. This topic of cutting poles is especially elusive, and I'm trying to get a handle on precisely what it is that vaulters/coaches think that they are accomplishing when they pull out the saw and start measuring (measure twice, cut once as they say).

So although you suggest that it will be difficult to get an answer, I'm curious to know what the potential answers are. Does anybody have any experience or theories about the mathematical correlations involved? I'm interested in everybody's input.

At this risk of being repetitious, I again ask: when someone cuts 6 inches from a 14-160, what is it that s/he is trying to get as a result? Or, if someone cuts 12 inches, what is it that s/he is trying to achieve? The cutters out there MUST have some theoretical concept of lbs./per/inch, right?

[Oldcoach]

Maybe they(the cutters) are more interested in changing the shape of the bend than the resultant change in relative stiffness.

[zack]

What people have told me is that when they cut their poles they are trying to get it to bend higher. Cutting a pole from the bottom lowers the sail and forces the bend higher. But it by making the bend higher by cutting, you're also forcing the bend into an area with less glass that wasn't made to handle that much force. Thats the general idea I've heard from several different people who do cut poles and people who are strongly against it.