Stretching

[VaultPurple]

Why is it advantageous to a gymnast to be flexible?

Well i would think this was quite obvious with the fliping, twisting, ocasional split like motion or two. And in pole vault if you wanna jump like scott huffman you better be pretty flexiable too!

[KYLE ELLIS]

'Will all my stretching hinder me?'

Sorry I thought I answered gymnastsrock's question...

[gymnastsrock]

First of all, thanks KYLE ELLIS for your explanantion. And yes, most of my flexibility is completely natural; as in the day someone showed me what 'splits' were when I was about 4 years old, I went right into them left/right/and middle. Also it akes a lot for me to even feel any pull anymore. I do something called double oversplits every night, and I have been since I was about 10 years old. You do splits, but each foot is elevated about 10-12inches off the ground. My body touches down to the ground in the middle and it really doesn't feel painful to me;it's just something I do to mantain the level I'm at. And you know that classic strecth with just bending over and trying to touch your toes? My elbows are almost on the ground, so I usually do it on a step and reach for the floor below me.

Rainbowgirl touched on powerplant's question, as did vaultpurple, but I'll elaborate a bit. I'm a level 7, and if in your routine, say beam, you don't hit a 180 degree split in the form of a jump or leap, the judge takes half a point off your routine for a missing element. Floor's the same. Flexibility gives you clean lines and nice dance besides that, and helps with walkovers and even step-out backhandsprings on beam. Shoulder flexibility helps too! It can also set you apart from the rest- on floor I'm known for doing a backwalkover and landing right in the splits, then touching my back foot to my head while there. Judges can take points off for poor dance and 'fluff' moves. So it's in the artistry part. And also, it helps on bars. I don't quite have the timing down to make it to handstand on bars, but if I straddle my legs instead of doing a pike, I can make it up, just because my straddle goes far enough to pull me all the way up. Strong tumblers can get away with not as much flexibility, but I've always taken advantage of my extra range of motion. I hope most of that makes sense, but if not, feel free to ask more!

[KYLE ELLIS]

I missread powerplants question. I understand why flexibility would be necessary in gymnastics/ cheerleading/ maybe diving...

[powerplant42]

So now let's get closer to the vault... gymnastsrock, another question. How difficult are giant swings for you? (The light will soon be shed upon this topic... I promise!)

[gymnastsrock]

For level 7's, giants aren't required, so I don't compete them. However, I do them on the strap bar(boys highbar, but you're literally strapped in by your wrists so you can't fall). They're not that hard for me because I cast all the way up into handstand first, so the momentum helps a lot, then I just tap myself around. I've thought about doing them in competition instead of my free hipcircle on the highbar, but I'm a little scared because I don't wear grips and we just got new bars, and I'm not quite used to them yet. I did them last week, though, with my coach holding one of my wrists as I went around, and I made it fine-she said they were actually really good.

And I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going...

[rainbowgirl28]

Aww you're making me miss gymnastics. I wish I could do all that stuff without being in pain.

[powerplant42]

And I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going...

We're almost there, hang on! Just a few more questions and then I'll flip the lightswitch to the 'on' position: How quickly can you get from a sitting position, sort of like during the swing:I_^_ (sorry if that's not that clear, we really need a 'sketch' application in here! ) into a handspring via backward somersault? Does it feel like there's something pushing back against you (other than gravity), or does it just flow? What about someone you know who is NOT as flexible as you are?

[gymnastsrock]

Easily...kind of like just melting right into it. One of the girls I know who is definitely NOT flexible has good backhansprings, but they look stronger I guess. I can't really figure out how to describe it;it's almost more forced, but it still looks good. I hope that's what you were asking...

[powerplant42]

Ok, here it is. There are a few points I'd like to make. First point. KYLE ELLIS, you mentioned that being so flexible reduces 'elasticity' in the muscles, and much of your argument was saying that in pulling a leg back to any given point for example, the pre-stretch will be less than that if the subject was not so flexible. I am not necessarily disagreeing with this, because that is simple science. However, let us consider that this force works WITH AND AGAINST, and that through finishing their take-off correctly, someone like gymnastsrock should have a much better 'flick', almost like what Kirk Bryde is describing, except it's completely natural. This is because, as you said, the quadricep, abdominals, chest, and shoulders would be less 'elastic', which allows the leg to go further back without resistance. To get numbers there would have to be some pretty complicated tests done, so I doubt that will happen any time soon, but I am sure that what is lost for in elasticity is made up for with the greater volume/inertia of the swinging trail-leg. Second point. This goes right along with the last point, except in a different vault phase. The inversion. The posterior muscles are less likely to 'pull' on someone flexible during this phase, making it flow pretty well. You don't need to be quite as strong. Third point. Flexibility can pretty obviously help with bar clearance, in all sorts of ways. Fourth point. Someone who is extremely flexible is much less likely to pull a muscle or something like that.

I hope that this has been an insightful post, and thank you to gymnastsrock for being so helpful! The point is: STRETCH!!!

[KYLE ELLIS]

Ok, here it is. There are a few points I'd like to make. First point. KYLE ELLIS, you mentioned that being so flexible reduces 'elasticity' in the muscles, and much of your argument was saying that in pulling a leg back to any given point for example, the pre-stretch will be less than that if the subject was not so flexible. I am not necessarily disagreeing with this, because that is simple science. However, let us consider that this force works WITH AND AGAINST, and that through finishing their take-off correctly, someone like gymnastsrock should have a much better 'flick', almost like what Kirk Bryde is describing, except it's completely natural. This is because, as you said, the quadricep, abdominals, chest, and shoulders would be less 'elastic', which allows the leg to go further back without resistance. To get numbers there would have to be some pretty complicated tests done, so I doubt that will happen any time soon, but I am sure that what is lost for in elasticity is made up for with the greater volume/inertia of the swinging trail-leg. Second point. This goes right along with the last point, except in a different vault phase. The inversion. The posterior muscles are less likely to 'pull' on someone flexible during this phase, making it flow pretty well. You don't need to be quite as strong. Third point. Flexibility can pretty obviously help with bar clearance, in all sorts of ways. Fourth point. Someone who is extremely flexible is much less likely to pull a muscle or something like that.

I hope that this has been an insightful post, and thank you to gymnastsrock for being so helpful! The point is: STRETCH!!!

First off I will say that i believe a vaulter/ sprinter/ and type of jumper or hurdler needs to reach a certain degree of flexibility. Im not saying flexibility is bad. Full range of motion is important. And i agree that a more flexible person could have a longer trail leg, but i think the force put into the ground is more imprtant. I am alot less concerned that someone can have a longer trail leg and swing a bit faster. I am more concerned with how fast someone can run down the runway and how much force they can apply to the ground. I compare what your trying to say with a decathlon, well if someone can run a 4:10 1500 they can score so many points, well that doesn't matter when the other 9 events deal with with speed and explosiveness... I doubt brian clay will be that worried about his shape as far as the 1500, I bet 95% of his training is focused on speed and explosiveness.

Second point it doesn't take a great deal of flexibility to hit the proper positions in the vault. And it shouldn't be a strain to get on top of the pole, with a good takeoff and swing it shouldn't feel like anything. Most good vaulters will tell you when they hit a good takeoff everything else is easy.

third point. Look at second point, body awareness would seem more useful for guidance over the bar.

fourth point. Maybe I don't know if that is 100% true or not... But to me is irrelevant anyways because when you see a sprinter pull up on tv it isn't because they have poor flexibility or poor warmup routine, it is because they are pushing their body to the point of failure... Because their muscles can contract at such great force an injury is more likely to occur. So I guess in that manner yes, an overly flexible/ slower less explosive athlete wouldn't run as high risk of getting injured.

My point, a certain level of flexibility is needed for the vault, but an extremely flexible person will not have an advantage.. Yet they will have a dissadvantage. And wouldn't you agree that how far a person's trail leg comes back has alot to do with the amount of force they are applying through the ground at takeoff?? To me it would seem pointless for a person to try and swing their leg back farther to create a greater swing, it would create slack and miss timing in the vault.

[powerplant42]

You're entire argument here is based on the principle that the SSC is affected by flexibility. Where are you getting this from? If it has been proven, I'd like to be referred to the study. I will reconsider only if SCIENCE is not on my side. And I'm not trying to be smug, I really want to learn, but it's impossible to do like this...