Amazing Video of Warmerdam

[powerplant42]

Nice observation! Yeah, that would make sense too, seing how Bubka used a pretty narrow grip as well.

[achtungpv]

notice on that last clip...his standards (if they were adjustable) are at around ZERO. Wow.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

For what it's worth. I was taught to vault on a swedish steel pole. At that time there were no measurements for the standards. You just held your pole vertical in the box and had the officials move them accordingly. The design of the standards was such that they usually ended in a round base that sat on a flat (if you were lucky concrete) surface. There was no constraint to the base of the standards, they could move in all directions.

The run and pole carry needed you to hold your top hand way behind your butt and during the last couple of strides you slid your top hand forward letting it slide through your bottom hand and up at the take off! Really different from what we teach now...

[sooch90]

Wow that's really impressive stuff!

How does he get such a massive pushoff on a huge pole? I just can't grasp the concept of a stiff pole returning energy back to the vaulter.

And just out of a curiousity, how come stiff pole vaulters never carry their pole vertically? Was this technical aspect of running simply not quite developed yet? Or did it have something to do with the type of pole they were using?

[ladyvolspvcoach]

Sooch90 the vertical pole carry came along around the mid 80's to late 80's. Actually in the steel era the pole didn't return energy to the vaulter, much as it doesn't today! If you look closely at CW's jumps he actually swings through this hands. It's truely a swing. Today's vaulters "swing" through their shoulders and not their hands. It's an affect of the bending pole!

[achtungpv]

How does he get such a massive pushoff on a huge pole? I just can't grasp the concept of a stiff pole returning energy back to the vaulter.

You swing above your grip whether it's a steel pole or a fiberglass pole. An old edition of the Track & Field Omnibook cited a study that showed that "modern" 18-foot vaulters had an average pushoff of only 4" greater than the best steel pole vaulters. If poles "threw you" this difference would be substantially greater. The biggest benefit of fiberglass is increased grip height.

[sooch90]

Ah ha! It's all in the swing! That's awesome, thanks!

[rainbowgirl28]

The video clip posted in the first post of the thread is pretty awesome!

[golfdane]

The video clip posted in the first post of the thread is pretty awesome!

Indeed!! I'm somehow reminded of Donald Thomas, watching his legs flap like mad...

But, saying that the Petrov model automatically makes you loose control at the top end, is like saying, that Fosbury is the cause of Thomas' peculiar style, and his many failed attempts throughout the competitions.
Lukyanenko's recent 6.01 clearence was indeed very controlled. The ability to put the bar back on, is a matter of spatial intelligence, which automatically gives you an edge on the top end.

[powerplant42]

I think it could be controlled if it was practiced more, but since it matters so little compared to the early stages, I don't think it ever will be. I doubt that Bubka ever spent hours and hours trying to perfect the moment between push-off and bar clearance, nor should he have... he would have been wasting time that he could've used to work on his run, or something really important.

[KirkB]

I think Warmerdam's intent by flailing his arms is definitely to twist around in prep for the hard landing on the shavings. His flailing of his legs is different tho. He seems to struggle to maintain his balance while twisting 180° to clear the bar, and is anything but graceful (or efficient in his body movements).

Note also that he sometimes flexes his knees, then straightens them - in an action not unlike the shoot part of a tuck/shoot. He's clearly getting some lift-off from this. Especially look at the 2nd last jump - when the cameras all flash. That makes it hard to see clearly, but it sure looks to me like he's pausing, then flexing his knees straight and shooting - to improve his handstand. This is clearly a much shorter time span than on fiberglass, since there's no recoil (to speak of) to wait for on bamboo. But there is some!

There's lots of bad jumps (low bars) in this series of film. On some, he's gripping almost at bar height. You have to ignore those in your analysis, as the technique is clearly sub-optimal.

Compared to Bubka, I agree that they have similar arm-flailing movements. But I think they're doing it for 2 different reasons. Bubka is just trying to clear the bar. I don't think he's worried about his landing.

I've never seen Bubka's legs flail like Warmerdam's, so I think the comparison is only re the arms.

I hate to suggest this (well, maybe I don't), but I don't see a pure straight-body vault when I see this film of Warmerdam. If he was the best of the best stiff pole vaulters, then where's the straight-body swing?

He does do a two-legged swing, but after that, he bends at the hips and at the knees - to varying degrees in various jumps. This is contrary to what Launder suggests he does in Chapter 5 of BTB2. On page 23, where he states:

... while the stiff pole vaulter did break at the hips to speed up the rotation of the body about the hands, they did not flex markedly at the knees or go into a tight tuck.

Maybe "markedly" is the key word here, but I could quote several other sentences in that chapter that also infer that stiff pole vaulters swing to an invert in a straight-body motion. And I think that Agapit also mentioned that in his Pole Vault Manifesto thread. Not so, from what the film shows us. And Figure 5.7 on page 23 (probably traced from film) show his hips and knees bent too, and his legs flailing awkwardly over the bar.

Maybe Altius or Agapit can clarify these observations?

And for what it's worth, I have a pic of myself clearing 10-6 with a steel pole in high school in about 1966. I wasn't very good then, but my legs were flailing badly. I agree that is probably mostly because of the narrow grip.

Kirk

[golfdane]

I think it could be controlled if it was practiced more, but since it matters so little compared to the early stages, I don't think it ever will be. I doubt that Bubka ever spent hours and hours trying to perfect the moment between push-off and bar clearance, nor should he have... he would have been wasting time that he could've used to work on his run, or something really important.

I agree.... Priorities......