summer weight liftign program

[VaultPurple]

you must have initial mass in order to convert that into muscle, not strength. thats why skinny kids have a hard time gaining weight even when their numbers in the weight room are increasing.

u keep saying you must have that initial mass to convert into muscle.... what initial mass are you talking about... Fat does not convert to muscle!!

you get stronger and more muscle by exercising and durring a workout you slowly wear down your muscles and basicaly injure them in small incraments... that is why the rest period is so important. After you "injure" your muscles durring a work out your body heals itself by fixing the torn muscle fibers and adding more protein. When it heals it is slightly stronger.

This is why people take PROTEIN because they are trying to make sure that they have enough protein in their body to help heal and add onto their muscle.


Muscles are made out of PROTEIN... Love Handles are made out of FAT
They are two compleatly diffrent substances.

My main point is that you do not gain strength by gaining mass... you gain mass by gaining strength

It is not that the 135lb athleate can not get any stronger with that body, it is that as he gets stronger he will slowly gain more muscle mass.

[powerplant42]

One shouldn't try to get fat... nobody is saying this... fat cell hyperplasia nor hypertrophy are desirable, and fat cells can not 'transform' into muscle cells. However, ketones and fatty acids/glycerol are released from fat cells to give energy where needed (metabolic pathways/Krebs cycle during anaerobic respiration/lifting heavy loads) and can be helpful in gaining muscle.

My main point is that you do not gain strength by gaining mass... you gain mass by gaining strength

Strength is a function of size... there is an enormous relationship between the amount of muscle fibers, the size of muscle fibers, and the strength of the muscle. You said it yourself:

you get stronger and more muscle by exercising and durring a workout you slowly wear down your muscles and basicaly injure them in small incraments... that is why the rest period is so important. After you "injure" your muscles durring a work out your body heals itself by fixing the torn muscle fibers and adding more protein. When it heals it is slightly stronger.

What do you think happens when the muscle is repaired? More contractile proteins exist in the muscle tissue than before, size, so that MORE ACTIN-MYOSIN BRIDGES CAN BE ACTIVATED...STRENGTH!!!

I suggest you make sure you've got your facts straight before you claim to know the facts in the science of strength...

well strenght in term to force needed to run...how many powerlifters have you seen pole vault lately?

its all about realtive strength.... that fat aint lifting no weight....

if a 400lb man can apply 700lb of force to the ground with every step but a 160lb man can apply 400lb of force then the 160lb man is obviously gonna be a lot faster because he applies 2.5x his own body weight while the 400lb guy only applies 1.75x his weight.

Good powerlifters are rarely 'fat', and many of them are extremely good sprinters and have very high vertical jumps. Example: Andre Henry... weighs over 400 pounds and has a 42''+ vertical leap.

[VaultPurple]

What do you think happens when the muscle is repaired? More contractile proteins exist in the muscle tissue than before, size, so that MORE ACTIN-MYOSIN BRIDGES CAN BE ACTIVATED...STRENGTH!!!

As i said earlier... "It is not that the 135lb athleate can not get any stronger with that body, it is that as he gets stronger he will slowly gain more muscle mass"...

my whole argument is that you do not need to get bigger befor you can get stronger, you get bigger AS you get stronger.


Theoreticaly if you were to take a 6' 155lb guy and a 6' 180lb guy (180 would have a little more fat) that both have the same muscle mass and lifting maxes. Then put them through the exact same workout routein then they should be able to get stronger at the same rate. The diffrence would be that the smaller athleate would have to eat more to give energy to the muscle while the larger atleates muscle would be able to burn away fat (this is why some believe weight training and plyrmoetrics are good form of weight loss). The diffrence is that the Smaller athleate will slowly gain weight and more muscle mass while the larger athleate will slim down slighly by losing fat but will gain some of that weight back at same time in muscle. So over a long enough time they would be equal in size strength and weight. But durring the transition phase the smaller athleate will be alot faster of a runner because he has equal strength with less mass.

[powerplant42]

You're missing the point... hypertrophy and hyperplasia are results of reparation of a muscle... in order for the muscle to become stronger, it needs this reparation. Do you understand this? How could it POSSIBLY be the other way around? You need to understand some basic muscle anatomy and chemistry before you claim things like this...

Theoreticaly if you were to take a 6' 155lb guy and a 6' 180lb guy (180 would have a little more fat)

I would say that he actually has 25 more pounds of fat...

But durring the transition phase the smaller athleate will be alot faster of a runner because he has equal strength with less mass.

Obviously... because he has less person to move... what are you getting at?


Also, just as a side note, you can't 'burn' fat... you can really only destroy/remove fat cells through something like liposuction...

[marshall]

Theoreticaly if you were to take a 6' 155lb guy and a 6' 180lb guy (180 would have a little more fat) that both have the same muscle mass and lifting maxes.

hahah what? he wouldn't have a little more fat...

[sooch90]

hey, sorry I don't mean to interrupt in this discussion, but I just wanted to get some input

I'm 5' 8.5" and about 138lbs, should I focus on gaining bulk for now?

I basically do not know anything about weight lifting and building power. Right now, I go to the gym everyday with a friend and we just focus on a certain body part a day. For example, mondays- chest, tuesdays- legs, wednesdays- arms, thursdays- legs again, and fridays- shoulders and back

Our workouts usually consist of doing 3 sets of 8 repetitions of different machines and dead lifts. Then we do 3 sets of 30 reps of push ups, leg lifts, etc. We switch up the numbers according to the exercise. Is this all right? Do you guys have any advice to modify this program?

I talked to another person who suggested that in order to build power, we should start with warming up, and then go to our max weight to do like 6 reps. What're your thoughts?

[powerplant42]

If you have a good strength base to work off of, (I'm sure you do by now, especially since you've been training fairly regularly,) you need to start to train for power and explosive movements. Get somebody knowledgable to teach you to do all the olympic lifts, and start a good plyometrics program. Don't focus on conventional resistance as much, but do still include it. Hope that helps you out!

[VaultPurple]

You're missing the point... hypertrophy and hyperplasia are results of reparation of a muscle... in order for the muscle to become stronger, it needs this reparation. Do you understand this? How could it POSSIBLY be the other way around? You need to understand some basic muscle anatomy and chemistry before you claim things like this...

1. I know how the muscles work thanks to 5 science classes in past two years.

2. You are basically repeating the same thing as me but calling it something diffrent.

The muscles are repaired and get stronger and bigger. That was my original statement.

The original poster stated that you must add Mass before you add Muscle. Im saying that the only mass you need to be adding is muscle by working out. And only other mass you can add to your body besideds muscle is fat.. unless you have invented a way to grow taller (please let me know if you do!!!)

I have not said that you add muscle before the muscles repair. I have been trying to argue that the repair is what is causing the muscle to get bigger and stronger

my whole argument is that you do not need to get bigger before you can get stronger, you get bigger AS you get stronger.

Maybe i should reword this to be more spacific... Skinny guy with no fat and little muscle works out, His muscle fibers break down slowly, they heal, and when they heal they are slightly stronger and bigger. The only thing causing that new mass was the repair of his muscles and added protein to his body. This would happen weather he "added more mass" befor he started strength training or not. As long as you eat a good diet full of plenty of protein to help repair your muscles then you will get stronger and bigger over time through your muscles repairing themself!

[powerplant42]

This is what I've been getting at... the muscle repairs and grows (gets bigger/heavier) THEN it is stronger. Muscles get stronger as they get bigger, not the other way around, but whatever, this isn't too important to argue.

The original poster stated that you must add Mass before you add Muscle.

He did not say this. He said mass before strength. He never said "get really fat, then you can turn that fat into muscle." He meant muscle mass. Like you said, with Allison Felix and her deadlifting program... she gained very little weight, but what if she had more muscle to start? She would have had a higher end result, because there would have been a higher threshold for what the muscles could do, since their size would have increased.