The Swing

[ADTF Academy]

As stated before by many people that post if you people would read back to the countless hours of conversation. This is one element I personally think Bubka was missing.

His bottom arm extends and braces. Now is it because of pole length and amount of bend in the pole or because of his doing only Bubka and his coach can say. It appears he does and this is why I feel he gets slightly caught in the middle of his jump, but he had that amazing extension and could get out of it like no one else and still beat the pole to inversion otherwise referred to as covering the pole.

I teach and advocate no excessive pressure with bottom arm in fact I teach the bottom arm pull off the ground. This pull in the direction behind your body bring your COM closer to the pole cord. The direction should occur naturally and with a couple tries athletes figure it out relatively quick.

If you do not think this is possible watch the vaults of Mark Hollis (5.75). He is in the beginning stages of this transformation. No bottom arm at plant and it never fully extends at all during the jumps and he is on a 5 meter poles.

Once again this is not a perfect example he is only in the beginning stages of this model. All we know is once he stated to initiate this he moved up poles very quickly and is getting launched off the top better than ever. Mainly because it allows a deeper and more powerful swing which provides energy and additional torque to rotate bigger sticks. The mindset of pressure with bottom arm is misleading and blinding to many people.

This is one main area I agree with Agapit and it was a relief to hear another coach talk about this when he posted his manifesto.

[Robert schmitt]

It's easy to see Isi do this on her WR jump.

[agapit]

It's easy to see Isi do this on her WR jump.

Yes!

[agapit]

I teach and advocate no excessive pressure with bottom arm in fact I teach the bottom arm pull off the ground.

This is one main area I agree with Agapit and it was a relief to hear another coach talk about this when he posted his manifesto.

Good deal! I would say more clear that not only no excessive presure but no presure at all with the bottom arm.

Correct the take-off possition with the direction of the jump and plant instead.

[agapit]

I have two questions.

First, at what exact point does the left arm pull begin, using these three photos i.e. does pulling begin after Photo 1/2/3?

Photo 1


Photo 2


Photo 3


When I first read your manifesto, I thought you were advocating beginning the left arm pull as soon as the vaulter leaves the ground (i.e. Photo 1). I found this lead to me getting "clotheslined" by my own pole and getting insufficient penetration. Are you saying here that the inversion and left arm pull only begin as or after the vaulter has swung to the chord of the pole (i.e. Photo 3)?

Now the second question. Depending on your answer for the first question (Photo 1/2/3), what is the left arm doing BEFORE this point when it begins pulling? Is it pushing (i.e. pushing toward the bar, pushing the pole to vertical, keeping the vaulter behind the pole etc.)? Is this something desirable or something that's just practically necessary in the real world? Should it be emphasized in training or reduced as much as possible?

The pull would begin between 2 and 3, when the left foot reaches the vertical line drawn from the bottom grip on the pole.

Remember that the pole bend is still increasing, so it would appear that the distance between the chest and the bottom grip is increasing, but the pulling action has already began. At that time it is isometric pull, where the pole actually stretching the bottom arm due to the bend increase but the isometric resistance begins to affect the acceleration of the swing.

To answer your second question, the left arm is just holding the pole it does not push it. How can it? Would it push up on pic 2 and what would be the purpose of tsuch a push? It could only row starting pic 2, but than we would see the angle between the top arm and the body changing wouldn't we? Since we do not see this angle changing the conclusion must be that there is no rowing action either.

The pull instead would accelerate the body rotation around the top hand grip and lead to a longer body in the rotation/inversion.

[volteur]

Photo 1


Photo 2


Photo 3

Thankyou, that clears things up a lot. So how would this summary work out?

The vertical line from the left hand to the left foot is when the pull begins.

The initial phase of the pull is isometric even eccentric

Where does this intial phase end? I'm guessing when the left foot passes the cord length, a moment before the time of the third photo?

From there is it a concentric pulling that begins simulatenous to the inversion?

cheers agapit

[agapit]

Photo 1


Photo 2


Photo 3

Thankyou, that clears things up a lot. So how would this summary work out?

The vertical line from the left hand to the left foot is when the pull begins.

The initial phase of the pull is isometric even eccentric

Where does this intial phase end? I'm guessing when the left foot passes the cord length, a moment before the time of the third photo?

From there is it a concentric pulling that begins simulatenous to the inversion?

cheers agapit

Bingo!

P.S. I would not call it an initial phase, since there is only one phase it just changes from eccentric to concentric and becomes visible. The pull ends when the push-off begins. Even then I would just call it a pull/push as a one continuous motion.

I could show it to you at Slippery Rock June 13-15th.

[volteur]

gah i live In Australia and i am a coach. Guess my finances.

[jftvaulter]

Wow, what a wonderful wealth of knowledge agapit possesses! I have studied this theory and implemented my interpretation through the high school athletes I've coached the past two years. The one barrier they struggle with is eliminating the word "swing" from their vocabulary. As we've heard from Agapit, the swing exists, but not in the form most vaulters would describe.

Sure, we've seen vaulters throughout history vault 6.00 meters pushing with the left arm, tucking and shooting, but the last 20+ years proves the limitations to such technique.

One of my senior 15 foot vaulters and I sat down with video from his practices, my computer to compare his position with Yelena and Bubka and an open minds to help him better understand how to implement the ideals found in Agapit's Vault Manifesto. Amazingly, it took two video sessions for him to transition from a 15 foot vaulter to a 16 footer.

He dropped the idea of pushing the pole and adopted the pull/push model. Now of course he's not perfect and has a long way to go, but simply eliminating the idea of the push/swing from his mind resulted in a system where energy was created, not wasted or harnessed from the run.

This post about the swing has been quite enjoyable to read. Thanks Agapit. Hopefully American coaches will be influenced by your promotion of the 6.40 model and other writings like this. It's amazing how simply "defining" a word can lead to understanding... I know it's helped me verbally explain what I've already adopted mentally.

Good luck in Slippery Rock. Hopefully you'll have many converted coaches - maybe someone will be in the crowd ready to coach the next world record holder.

[jftvaulter]

Oh by the way, if you're looking for a nice comprehensive vault site with hires video in slow motion check out this link.

http://www.stabhochsprung.com/

My high school guys eat this up. Watch Yelena's vaults and you might be a little more convinced that there is no push with the bottom arm. It's much easier to see in her vault than Bubka's but they are the same conceptually.

Neither push with the left arm and who's going to argue with the fact that the two best vaulters in the history of the sport share the same technique.

[jftvaulter]

Oh by the way, if you're looking for a nice comprehensive vault site with hires video in slow motion check out this link.

http://www.stabhochsprung.com/

My high school guys eat this up. Watch Yelena's vaults and you might be a little more convinced that there is no push with the bottom arm. It's much easier to see in her vault than Bubka's but they are the same conceptually.

Neither push with the left arm and who's going to argue with the fact that the two best vaulters in the history of the sport share the same technique.

[decanuck]

The pull would begin between 2 and 3, when the left foot reaches the vertical line drawn from the bottom grip on the pole.

Remember that the pole bend is still increasing, so it would appear that the distance between the chest and the bottom grip is increasing, but the pulling action has already began. At that time it is isometric pull, where the pole actually stretching the bottom arm due to the bend increase but the isometric resistance begins to affect the acceleration of the swing.

To answer your second question, the left arm is just holding the pole it does not push it. How can it? Would it push up on pic 2 and what would be the purpose of tsuch a push? It could only row starting pic 2, but than we would see the angle between the top arm and the body changing wouldn't we? Since we do not see this angle changing the conclusion must be that there is no rowing action either.

The pull instead would accelerate the body rotation around the top hand grip and lead to a longer body in the rotation/inversion.

Thanks for the answer. I understand the illusion of how the eccentrically contracting pulling muscles make it appear as though the vaulter is pushing. I get how this pulling accelerates the swing and both adds energy into the system whilst positioning the body in the bestway to exploit it. I even get how the conscious action of trying to UNbend the pole, in fact, bends it more.

What still blows my mind is that anyone can absorb the entire force of their full speed run and max effort takeoff with only the extended right arm (meaning the left arm and entire left side is completely passive until beginning the pull). It seems to me that one could do a better job of meeting the resistance from the pole hitting the box with BOTH hands, if only for a moment. This is the only difference I see between the vault, as you envision it, and as it is described by other proponents of the Petrov technique.

Petrov said this in his article on the IAAF web site:

The left arm is not trying to bend the pole; it plants it firmly towards the bar and then transfers the effort to the right hand, so that the pole is bent by the impact of the vaulter’s speed and mass.

And Ch. 8 of BTB2 says,

The ideal take off is one...where both hands are driven up as hard and as high as possible. The athlete should have the feeling that this high punch of the hands continues after take off

When I asked if the bottom arm pushed before the moment the pull was supposed to begin, I didn't mean a highly aggressive push in which one tries to bend the pole, I just mean loading the pole with one's impulse, or, rather, taking some of that impulse and deflecting it to the top hand as Petrov describes (albeit through translation) above. I just don't see how "planting firmly towards the bar" and "driving up as hard and as high as possible" can be passive actions in which the left hand applies no force, but merely hangs on for the ride until it begins pulling.

BTW I'm not trying to pit experts against one another, I've just noticed this is one thing that doesn't seem to jive. Nor do I wish to put words in your mouth, so if I am incorrect in my interpretation that you believe the left arm should be passive until pulling, I apologize.

One thing I do know is that if I'm ever to start loading full approach poles with just one hand, I'm going to have to work on my shoulder/lat strength a LOT.