Mid Mark Chart

[agapit]

hey

actually i think we are getting closer to a "solution".

What do you see as the reasonable difference between a Scott Huffman and Mr. Chistyakov on the last six steps?

I’ll follow up later with some thoughts.

dj

Ps.... is victor a vaulter? If so would he want to spend some time with me from June 21 to July 21? I’m serious. I’ll be in Finland and he is welcome to join some of our training.

I don't know about Victor in Finland. It is a cold country get some warm cloths.

[agapit]

hey

actually i think we are getting closer to a "solution".

What do you see as the reasonable difference between a Scott Huffman and Mr. Chistyakov on the last six steps?

I’ll follow up later with some thoughts.

dj

Ps.... is victor a vaulter? If so would he want to spend some time with me from June 21 to July 21? I’m serious. I’ll be in Finland and he is welcome to join some of our training.

Would Victor fit in your chart?

[dj]

hey

absolutely...

i'll put him on the track.. do pole runs and tell you where his "MID" should be and the grip..

by the way this is petrov's quote.. for those that didn't know..

This final 3rd part of the run is characterized by the increased rate of the run while the length of the stride remains the same, thus achieving the maximum speed of the run-up. The length of the strides is a little shorter as compared to sprint, the body is straightened. The length of the strides should not change abruptly. The 2nd last step is longer than the last one by 10-20 cm (optional).
This part in covered in 6 strides and equals to 17.0 - 17.5 m (shown by top athletes of the world) if measured from the back of the box.

this is another one that is correct and vaulable from petrov

Without changing the running velocity and running position, the vaulter begins the drop five to six strides before the plant. This is done with the help of a pulling and rotation (initial) of the right hand.


(17m-17.5m = 55'9" to 57'5")

The take-off point of the top pole vaulters in the world is somewhere between 4.20 m and 4.40 m from the back of the box. The taller vaulters take of at a distance o 4.10m "“ 4.20m, shorter ones dos at 4.30m "“ 4.40m.

Continued acceleration in the last four strides is an indication of good skills acquired in the part of the pole vault (pole drop/plant). In his best Vaults, Sergey Bubka continued to increase his velocity until the take-off, as follows:

Four Strides before take-off: 9.5 m/sec
Two Strides before take-off: 9.7m/sec
Immediately prior to take-off: 9.9 m/sec

we will do some math with this one later..

dj

[dj]

ps..

or more important.. you give me his grip on his best jump and i'll tell you where his "MID" should be... or was.. if it wasn't i can correct it and he will jump higher...

site-un-sean..

dj

[agapit]

ps..

or more important.. you give me his grip on his best jump and i'll tell you where his "MID" should be... or was.. if it wasn't i can correct it and he will jump higher...

site-un-sean..

dj

I am sorry dj. This doesn't make any sense. I gave you an example and you quote Petrov saying 17m 17.5m = 55'9" to 57'5". So what does your chart say is it 17m or 17.5m. say the grip is 5.05 and the height is 6.05m what does the chart say. More important what do you train? Just say it. Why wiggle? Let's say you take V. Chistiakov and what you are going to do? Would you just fit him the chart.

[dj]

Good morning

Not quite sure where the wiggle is. I don't get accused of wiggling it's more of saying it like it is.

A 17 meter MID is a 5.02 m Grip and a 5.90 m Jump.

A 17.5 meter MID is a 5.20 m Grip and a 6.20 m Jump.

Your 5.05 meter grip is a 17.17 meter MID ..

I train stride length and stride frequencywhich trains speed. I train running posture, pole carry (petrov's vaulter/pole system), increased frequency over the last 6 steps, pole drop rhythm, penultimate steps.. and a free takeoff.. all because I have an ON run that allows those things to take place.

I will guarantee to fit victor into the chart.. have him running faster, more aggressive with better rhythm and posture.. and wonder how in the hell I did it!

sadly only the ones that have used it and know it works, even if they don't totally undestand it, believe it.. the rest of the vault world doesn't want to see my presentation because they don't think it is that "simple".


But honestly roman it is physics.. and how speed is created.. I just wish I had the correct vocabulary to explain so it is understood.

Speed is created by pushing from the track.. the only way to get faster is to cut down the ground time per stride and to lengthen the stride.. the length of the stride increases with the impulse on the runway or track..

The same weight bullet (lead) is shoot horizontally from a 9mil gun.. and goes 3000 meters before it hits the ground. Then you double the powder and shoot the same size lead!.. both bullets will be in the air the same amount of time.. but which one will travel farther? You can make the same analogy for a motocross rider.. same ramp same bike same angle different speeds (force) when they leave the ramp.. the faster bike will travel farther in the air in the same time.. this is "stride length".. ha-be-be

The vaulter with the most powder used properly will run faster and jump higher

dj

[powerplant42]

The vaulter with the most powder used properly will run faster and jump higher

dj

What a good quote!

Agapit: Perhaps there is training value in the chart by simply doing runs on the track and having somebody see if you're on according to the chart? And fixing the run accordingly until they hit it every time? Right dj?

[vtcoach]

The same weight bullet (lead) is shoot horizontally from a 9mil gun.. and goes 3000 meters before it hits the ground. Then you double the powder and shoot the same size lead!.. both bullets will be in the air the same amount of time.. but which one will travel farther? You can make the same analogy for a motocross rider.. same ramp same bike same angle different speeds (force) when they leave the ramp.. the faster bike will travel farther in the air in the same time.. this is "stride length".. ha-be-be

This works in the gun example because you are assumming the barrel is level so the speed in the vertical plane is 0 at take-off in both cases and so gravity causes both to hit the ground at the same time. But in the case of the bike and ramp there is a positive (upward) vector in the vertical plane at the time of take-off that is different for each trial. The bike that left the ramp faster will travel farther but it will also be in the air longer the same way that a faster bullet fired straight up will be in the air longer than a slower bullet fired straight up. Also speed and force are completely different concepts. To say they have different speeds when they leave the ramp would be correct. To say they have different force when they leave the ramp would not be correct. Force is involved when the bikes are accelerating, once they reach the top of the ramp the only force (ignoring air friction) involved is gravity.

[powerplant42]

Ha! I feel like an idiot... I only really read the last part of that post! I thought he meant to say 'power'...

[dj]

hey

?

vaulters/runners should hope to keep their mass "displacement" as close to "0" as possible.

and the bikes do not takeoff of a different ramp.. the only change was the speed at which they left the ramp.. which is the same way we create stride length.

you definitely don't want to run with any UP displacement of the mass you would have a shorter stride, even with more force, if you ran that way..

I though I was comparing apples to apples or oranges to oranges..
vtcoach, i guess i'm not understanding what your saying and need to re-read it..

i don't really see how a vaulter/runner would not "match up" exactly the way you just described the bullet and bike? allthough wind resistance could play a roll in keeping a body in the air longer if you have a Parabola..

maybe i should ask these questions and i can hopefully come up with the best way to describe what i know to be correct.

i take two long jumps.. the first one i jumped 12 feet. the second one i jump 14 feet.. what would have to change to do this?

[vtcoach]

Hi DJ,

I wasn't trying to make a statement on running, just clarifying the physics example. The same bullet shot level at two different velocities will be in the air the same amount of time. The same bike leaving the same ramp at two different velocities will not be in the air the same amount of time.

[dj]

hye
thanks vt..

i should have stoped with the gun... or used the cars on the santa monica pier analogy.. which is a flat surface.. but that's another story..

my point with the motocross was if you change the speed into "push" off ... when you leave the surface you will travel further..

which is how i view stride length to be created...

dj

ps

Let's do this..

Say you are a barber.. a client comes in and says I want a cut.

You ask how short? The client says I don't know. You say 1, 2, 3?

These are your guides. That gives you a reference for how the client want's the hair cut.

He says 3.. so now you know about how short to cut the hair. If you are highly experienced you may just start cutting.. and will know the rest from experience. A beginning barber will use a guide and hopefully produce a cut that matches yours.

The MID is a guide.

The length of the hair is only a distance speed is distance and time.. you can't have a physical action (physics) without accounting for both.. the MID chart that I created from stride length and stride frequency = speed and speed = potential grip is as close to correct, grip to MID for every jump matched on the chart as the guide for a 3 is to 3.

And this is not a trick answer.

Say you are a barber.. a client comes in and says “I want a cut.â€