Pole Vault Manifesto

[dj]

Ps

sorry that is petrov's writing not kochel's and it's 3 or 4 inches not three quarters of an inch..

by the way i have taught that "feel" at the takeoff by having my jumpers stand with the pole planted.. arms up but not fully extended.. i place my toe on the butt plug in the box.. with the plug 4 to 6 inches from the back..

i then have the vaulter "push" up onto the toe.. i releash the tip so that it gives a sudden slip into the back.. giving the vaulters a "rush" the first time.. soon they get used to it and try to feel the same on the vault..

actually allan i may have done that drill in SC when you were there.. and i have done it since 1975 when i worked with kochel..

i tried to invent a 4" insert to put in the box that would "slip" after increased pressure.. to give the correct feel so the athlete had a true "feel' for a correct takeoff (which is now, after petrov, being called a free take off) but didn't spend enought time trying to develp it.. it was easier to use "the toe on the plug in the box trick..."

dj

[baggettpv]

Foot support to pole support is Exactly what Vitaly was saying in 84!! Thats what Alan is saying, thats what Roman is saying, Petrov, Bubka, thats what I say and what Andjei said years agoat Athletics West.

It is extremely simple to see and train for, just ask or come up for a session.

I will stick my butt out again.
You must teach them to run.
You must teach them to jump from a run while carrying a pole.
You must teach them to Swing from a jump with support of the arms.
You must get the best athletes.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

PS: Don't get me started

[baggettpv]

Alan did I did a 2 day camp at my place and we had made 4 dvd's of the experience. Maybe you should send me a check for $60 and I will send you those DVD's (1/2 off). You can see Alan teaching, myself teaching, the running mechanics drills with alot more stuff.
Steal all you can from these DVD's that you want and put them into your coaching.
I took a year off from teaching (lost $45,000 and spent $20,000) just to work with Andjie Kjsinski at Athletics West so you spend just $60 and get some clarity.

Rick Baggett
email for address: baggettpv@aolcom

[volteur]

"Foot support to pole support is Exactly what Vitaly was saying in 84!! (that early?) Thats what Alan is saying (no he isn't he is saying the opposite) , thats what Roman is saying (yes), Petrov, Bubka, thats what I say (you just did) and what Andjei said years ago at Athletics West.

PS: Don't get me started

How do we get you started! I liked the pole support continuous contact thing because it is very important. To lose this connection is a serious problem that any athlete who vaults knows about and does their best to avoid.

If i wasn't so broke (coaching doesn't really pay) i would buy that damn BTB2 and you DVD as well.

Anyway i have a copy of p243 sent to me so i can now see what Alan is saying.

Oh, i just spoke to this guy Julian Shuravetsky who spent 6 months living in Formia and spending every day with Vitaly. Drinking vodka watching Bubka videos hearing Bubka stories from Vitaly in his native tongue. Julian is Ukrainian in origin. Anyway Julian is sending me some photos from a training session indicating correct position just prior to takeoff. I should have them soon, there are some of Vitaly as well for interest.

I'm trying to convince Julian to come on here and set some records straight about what exactly Vitaly is saying or not.

cheers

[golfdane]

http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~spstnpl/Pub ... (Linthorne).pdf

Note: The (Linthorne).pdf is part of the link....
According to this, the optimum take-off angle is 18 deg......
Interesting (though I'm not qualified to judge the physics)...

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/techni ... aunder.pdf

[golfdane]

http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~spstnpl/Bio ... mAngle.htm

Might explain why there is some correlation in LJ performance and PV...

[volteur]

nice work Golfdane. Linthorne says long jump is around 22 degrees and pole vault is around 18 degrees. I'm interested to know what triple jump is: 15-20 rings a bell. Those 4 degrees are heaps though.

figure 4 of Linthorne's vault paper shows that the most effective angle for the highest possible grip is about 25 degrees but the most effective angle for the highest bar clearance is about 18 degrees.

figure 2 of Launder's paper needs some serious consideration.

[volteur]

a reply to Alan from golfdane's article

The reader who is still unconvinced that the term “prejumpâ€

[gtc]

I have worked numerous camps with Alan and I can honestly say never ever once has he ever said anything of the sort that the takeoff should be a foot out and the vaulter a foot off the ground when the pole tip hits the back of the box! That is ludicrous.
Emphasis has always been that an idea takeoff would find the vaulters toes just leaving/off the ground pointing down as the tip hits the back of the box! Thats it!! So simple and when done correctly so effective. (But not always easy to do)

[golfdane]

nice work Golfdane. Linthorne says long jump is around 22 degrees and pole vault is around 18 degrees. I'm interested to know what triple jump is: 15-20 rings a bell. Those 4 degrees are heaps though.

You think?? IMO, it points to the notion, that the legwork should indeed be very close to that used in LJ, since the polevaulter hasn't the luxury of using his arms to increase take-off angle.

[volteur]

nice work Golfdane. Linthorne says long jump is around 22 degrees and pole vault is around 18 degrees. I'm interested to know what triple jump is: 15-20 rings a bell. Those 4 degrees are heaps though.

You think?? IMO, it points to the notion, that the legwork should indeed be very close to that used in LJ, since the polevaulter hasn't the luxury of using his arms to increase take-off angle.

But the pole vaulter does gain lift from planting the pole correctly. If the left hand has acted as a pivot as it should then the top of the pole is moving very quickly as the pole tip drops into the box. Taking off with this pole momentum provides a lot of extra energy.

[volteur]

I have worked numerous camps with Alan and I can honestly say never ever once has he ever said anything of the sort that the takeoff should be a foot out and the vaulter a foot off the ground when the pole tip hits the back of the box! That is ludicrous.
Emphasis has always been that an idea takeoff would find the vaulters toes just leaving/off the ground pointing down as the tip hits the back of the box! Thats it!! So simple and when done correctly so effective. (But not always easy to do)

If this is true then this part of the equation can be negated. If there is a continuous connection, although separated, from take off support to pole support then that is what Petrov is saying and that many people have agreed with.

So the only thing left really is whether there is a deliberate up-spring at take-off or whether the intention is to run through the takeoff with full extension instead?

Oh and the 3 stride plant thing.