Why the plant is late?

[volteur]

nice dj

i was checking the chart already as you guessed. Interesting and i agree with it in generality, however, some will not fit. The athletes a peer coaches probably have a variance of 15 inches off a standing 6 stride vault. I don;t know what their 6 stride marks are off a full runup though.

I guess as we get to a more elite group and toward a more adult group the variance would diminish greatly. Also you backed up the stat of 180 strides a minute for a distance runner, well that is quite accurate given a minute is a long time. I think you provided the stat that there is only a foot difference between men and women's 6th stride in a 100m race (maybe have that really wrong).

How many individuals do you find do not naturally fit your chart. IS is much of a proportion at all?

cheers

[powerplant42]

Initial acceleration patterns are mentioned nowhere in the chart. Notice that there are no numbers on the chart that say where an athlete should be 18 strides out... that 15 inches you mentioned (and of which I'm VERY skeptical of,) can be accounted for in total approach length. All the mid is is a checkpoint to see if the vaulter will have enough force in their run to rotate a given grip length. Somebody call me out if I'm wrong/misinterpreting...

Also, how does one play weight rating into the chart? What's the math or conceptual structure of grip height AND weight rating being accounted for in conjunction with the chart? (Please, only somebody who actually KNOWS a TON about the chart try to answer this one...)

[dj]

hey

the "MID" chart numbers fit everyone at every level.........

i did the math years ago.. and everyone one that truly tries it and does it correctly comes back and says "it's so dead on it's scary."

that's not from me.. that's from others... the reason is physics.. and how speed is created..

the chart is based on stride length and stride frequency = speed.

how much speed we have determines the grip.. the grip determines approximately how high we jump...

i'm not sure what sprint stat i gave you .. i thought it was, one foot differential at the fourth step from the front foot in the blocks..

here is the step comparison for 40yds (36.58 meters)…. between a 4.23sec and a 4.50sec sprint from the blocks…man or women .. tall or short……..


.............................4.25sec..........................4.50sec
step 2....................8’0â€

[volteur]

no need to be sceptical its a fact but i probably should have mentioned this squad has girls from 13 to 19 and boys from 13 to 17 in it. Hence the variance is large.

[dj]

Powerplant42

Also, how does one play weight rating into the chart?

i'm not quite sure what the question is... could you explain or re-state it in another way?

and volteur is your question or concern about the chart being accurate, without adjustment, for all of your jumpers; even though they have a broad range of physical charistics and ages?

ANY/all athletes than can move a 12 foot grip to vertical from any length run should have a "MID" (check mark) 40 feet from the box. off course the takeoff may vary slightly from the "average" 9 feet on the chart because of reach height.

dj

[powerplant42]

So all I'm really asking is wrapped up in the essence of this question: If I could, for example, barely roll over a 14' 140 pole with a perfect mid and take-off, should I still have enough energy to roll over a 14' 210? Or is this all in take-off efficiency and not really run energy?

[vault3rb0y]

Correct me if im wrong, the chart tells you where your step should be, not how fast you are or how much energy you add into the vault. My mid has not moved more than 1 foot since i was a 14'8" vaulter, and my grip has been raised about 6 inches, and i think my step has been 6" under until this year. Mid the same, jumps different.

[dj]

hey

sounds like your running technique and speed are "catching up" to your "MID" ......quicker strides with less ground time? better posture, etc.

is that 6" at a 4 "MID" or 6" at 6 "MID"?

and what is that "MID" and grip if you don't mind sharing.

dj

[vault3rb0y]

Its a 4, Sorry i know you hate it, and at the college level i may switch but at this point in the season it works reasonably well, not perfect but well. I am not sure, but also i think with all the 10' jumpers running from 5 total steps, my coach didnt want to try to use a 6 step acceleration mid, i dont know for sure though. Even if its a little off, i agree with the acceleration idea. I definitely dont start my REAL acceleration just 4 strides out, it feels like it starts right around 6.

I am running from 7 steps total and WAS holding 14' and hitting 35'6"-36', when i jumped 14'8" or so. Now i am holding around 14'6" and hitting a toe outside 37' on my best jumps. My total run is usually between 92'6"-94'. My biggest problem is i feel i can hit my mid right on, but a lot of times i end up taking big steps and not accelerating enough into the box. I burn out before i reach the box. When i do accelerate into the box, my stride length seems to shorten just enough to give me a free take off and a great jump. Its either that, or the acceleration just makes me taller at the plant, im not sure. Either way, i learned i need to pace myself into the box and only accelerate all out about 6 strides out.

[baggettpv]

When I first started to look at this I saw a new idea. I put it into action and evaluated it. Good useful information that I had not considered before. Thats a good thing. Makes me a better teacher! But the big question I realized was that data does not create a process for improvement. Being a very good running teacher I confirmed the fact that to get faster and hold higher one must increase their stride length while either maintaining their turnover rate and even increasing it (data says 5% max is good, I think Remi Korchemi told me this).
Just came from a HS district meet and was appalled by all the running warmup drills that the kids were doing that were done improperly. It seems that if something is worth doing it should at least be done right! Don't you think? Poor teaching!!!! People talk about all the facets of the run but they never talk about the mechanics of A RUN. In 25 years of coaching only about 4 kids have ever NOT needing help on their running mechanics. Make sure they do the right things and make sure they do them right.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[BlueGoldPolevaulter167]

DJ, what is all the math behind the MID chart? How long does it take to calculate also.

[dj]

powerplant42 wrote...

So all I'm really asking is wrapped up in the essence of this question: If I could, for example, barely roll over a 14' 140 pole with a perfect mid and take-off, should I still have enough energy to roll over a 14' 210? Or is this all in take-off efficiency and not really run energy?

the stiffer pole would take more energy (speed) to bend and get to vertical. if you are "barely rolling a 14'140 with a perfect mid and takeoff" there should be no need or desire to go to a stiffer pole.

BlueGoldPolevaulter167

DJ, what is all the math behind the MID chart? How long does it take to calculate also.

the math was derivied from a "theory" that to move one grip (approximately 4") you would need one foot (12") more of stride length over 6 steps..2" per step...(stride length X time = MPH/MPS.. where MPH?MPS is speed.. speed is potential force..

the chart progressed form it's first conception during the 70's to completion in 1982 when i had been out of the country for 3 years and some extra free time.. when peter mcginnis started the vault bio studies the speed for the last 10-5 meters matched my MPH on the chart.. and the jumps matched the grip and "MID". i changed my MPH and did the math to MPS.. if you subtract the takeoff distance from the "MID", convert it to Meters and devide the time you will get the number under the MPS on my chart.. unless of course i did the math wrong.. and those numbers i.e 1.35 sec for the last 6 steps (57 "MID") = average 9.5 MPS which is very close to what Bubka did to jump 20'2".....

of course like "baggy" said if you are not running correctly no "MID" will help... but if you are running and planting correctly you will have the "MID" to grip from the chart. it is so correct that many, many, all times we have predicted makes and misses at a 95% level.. wish i could take that to vegas this weekend..........

sorry for that......................

looks like you were asking about calculating something.. but you don't have to calculate.. i've done it for.. or rather science, physics and math has........

dj