Foot and Hand Alignment at Takeoff

[Robert schmitt]

If this can be caused by an overuse injury that stretches the medial collateral ligament, then my earlier point about improper pulling exercises is accurate, and it means that we have to pay careful attention to how our athletes perform their lifts and drills.

I think what you were being told is more implicated with shortening the muscle from not going through the full range of motion.

The ligament injury would come from a lateral force that would increase the angle. like pitching. hitting a tennis ball, swinging a hammer, a blow to the elbow from lateral to medial, and in the case of PV possibly taking of under. This increased angle DUE TO INJURY would typically not be seen at rest like the first photo of your arm (that would be the normal anatomical carrying angle). If you were to grab the persons wrist with one hand and push on the elbow lateral to medial any increase in the angle would be do to ligament laxity/injury.

[ADTF Academy]

After playing around with this topic for a while I had to solve my question of why are some of my girls pointing their elbow forward. This might be a stretch but even those girls I have confirmed this might have happened.


Typically when the plant is taught we teach straight arm over head blah blah blah. Now take a look only at the hand. If you relax and take your arm over your head like your asking a question in class. If you notice the palm is facing forward. With the arm in this position the shoulder has the ability to accept the forces being aplied. Now you would need a simple twist of the wrist will put your hand in proper position to hold onto a pole.

However, think of it as putting your arm above your head so that your hand is in the correct position without having to twist your wrist. I know I know why not just twist your wrist but the ladies didn't think that way. They wanted to have the perfect plant and it actually ended up over doing it by twisting the shoulder ie elbow forward so that the hand was in the right spot when the arm was over their heads.


I'll tell you this my shoulder was killing me when i tried doing things the other way.

[Spencer Chang, MD]

From an orthopaedic standpoint, most people have a valgus carrying angle of the elbow, which is normal. This carrying angle is larger in women. The presumed bend is not actual flexion of the elbow, but how the arm lies in an anatomic position such that if the arm were supinated (palm forward while dangling the arm straight down) the forearm points away from the body. Thus, a fully extended elbow, or in most cases hyperextended, can look as if it is bent from the side view due to the carrying angle of the elbow.

If we didn't have this carrying angle, the arm swing would be complicated by hitting the hip on every swing while walking. Therefore, as orthopaedic surgeons, we are very careful to correct this carrying angle when one breaks a bone around the elbow. Since women typicallly have wider hips, they have higher carrying angles.

Now, with that being said, I still think the argument is a mute point as the four points you really need to focus on are the grip, the shoulder, the take-off hip and the toe-off. This needs to line up vertically to maximize that vertical impulse. I submit that you don't even look at the elbow for an analysis of the ideal take-off point. However, you might need to know what an athlete's completely extended elbow looks like from the side so that you don't mistaken a normal carrying angle for a bent elbow.

[baggettpv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj9jSCKF ... re=related

Just a 3 minute explanation of what I have learned and put on my DVD. Check it out, it might give you some another teaching perspective.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[8.19vault]

i do believe the foot is supposed to be inside the hand. in this manner you are able to muscle through the pole with just brute strength. this is more effective and has more consistent results. a negative angle at take off is what needs to be achieved

[PVstudent]

i do believe the foot is supposed to be inside the hand. in this manner you are able to muscle through the pole with just brute strength. this is more effective and has more consistent results. a negative angle at take off is what needs to be achieved

You are Joking, just joshing, having a lend or teasing the readers with this comment.

If you intended the comment seriously and actually practice what you preach then I implore you to desist before you become deceased.

If you are coaching the event based on this premise I recommend that:

1. Read previous posts from several of the thoughtful and sensible vaulters and coaches. :

2. Consult with a coach who has some knowledge of pole vault.

Perhaps your statement above was a "Dorothy Dixer" to give me an opportunity to Strongly Recommend that you purchase, read and then practice the principles and methods of successful pole vaulting given in "From Beginner to Bubka and Isinbayava Too"


If you are a pole vaulter or a coach you will find this resource a revelation and in your case a possible life saver.

[altius]

"You are Joking, just joshing, having a lend or teasing the readers with this comment."

I agree with pvstudent - 8.19 has recently made two posts in the advanced section that are so stupid that they cannot be serious. It would appear that someone who thinks he is cleverer than he actually is, is deliberately trying to stir the pot, The alternative answer of course is that he really is the dimmest and dumbest bunny of all time, Either way he should cease and desist - or becca should stop him posting.

[rainbowgirl28]

He was joking and I did stop him from posting.

However, a lot of people really do believe the things he said, so I hope something beneficial comes of the posts

[altius]

"However, a lot of people really do believe the things he said"

If that is true we should all stop wasting our time trying to make a contribution to the safety and development of vaulting around the world and you should shut up shop Becca.

Incidentally has the individual concerned got the guts to tell us his real name? Most of us post with our names well known to other readers of this forum and we have to take the flak that comes when our views are not accepted - he should be publicly recognised as a time wasting fool.

[rainbowgirl28]

Incidentally has the individual concerned got the guts to tell us his real name? Most of us post with our names well known to other readers of this forum and we have to take the flak that comes when our views are not accepted - he should be publicly recognised as a time wasting fool.

It was a college kid goofing off and he has promised it won't happen again.