Weighing vaulters....

[Lax PV]

Part of the problem is schools buying poles that are too light for their vaulters. A good percentage of HS girls weigh between 121-130 and 131-139. So every HS should probably have an 11'130 and 11'140 in stock. An 11'140 was the pole I used the most at my last HS.

It's all relative. Saying someone can or can't get on a pole over their weight is meaningless without knowing the length of the pole. A 12'120 is roughly the same as an 11'140 if you're gripping 11' on both poles. Most coaches who struggle to get their beginners on poles over their weight have the kids on too long of a pole for their ability level. Either embrace the straight poling, or find a way to get shorter poles.

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Well said.

'Cause lets be honest, a 150lbs freshman might not be able to safely jump (while bending the pole) a 14' 150. So why is the coach letting him or her try? Why not use a 12' 150" and see what comes of it? I am not saying that you need a full series of poles at every 5 lbs at this range of poles, cause they are not going to be needed all that often and money is an issue. But as an athlete learns how to do it, his/her pole progression is going to increase rapidly at the beginning, thus a jump from a 12' 150 to a 12' 160 is completely feasible (this is a generalization, I KNOW there will be exceptions... and those can be dealt with individually).

Becca has said this many times, there are poles that EVERY high school should have (and truth be told, my high school didn't have many of them). By covering this selection, the weight issues are no longer issues. But again, this obviously costs money, which many HS don't have a a ton of. So are we really arguing a "weight rating" problem... or pole length/lack of funds problem?

In going with what ADTF said... a kid would not be allowed to play football if he didn't have the necessary equipment, why should a pole vaulter be expected to "try it out" on equipment for someone of another size?

[birdi_gurlie]

I'm having this issue now...I'm a 97lb vaulter but I can't find a single 100lb pole to borrow within 100miles! I haven't even SEEN one. I have a 110 but I can't find a 100. And I'm simply too small for the 110; I need a 100lb pole but we can't find them anywhere and the school won't pay for it. My parents had to buy my 110 even at that.

[VTechVaulter]

The rule is a tricky one, and i believe the intent is good, but theres no way to execute it without being detrimental in some ways.

My normal jump weight is around 185-188 but I for years ive jumped on a warm up pole rated at 180-185. Sometimes lower if Im doing certain drills. And for those of you that dont know my jump, lets just say that overbending poles has never been a problem of mine. So that rule would have no effect on my safety. Granted I am well out of high school but Jack Whit for example may have had similar issues last year.

On the other hand. Ive watched some high school meets lately and felt like I cringe at every third vaulter whos goal is to try and bend both ends of pole together while they are sill upside down. So either they are not following the rule, or they are on a pole thats over their weight, and its still the incorrect pole. So is the rule helping there either? hard to say.

But as is mentioned, what is the answer when there aren't enough knowledgable coaches to keep people safe.

[Barefoot]

Since this is the high school and not the coaches board... and since it seems we can generally agree about the lack of HS PV coaches, both in numbers and quality... let me address this to the HS Vaulters.

In the last three years I have seen a number of vaulters stuck for YEARS at a fixed PR. Many of these vaulters were obviously jumping on poles 10, 20 even 30+ pounds below their weight. When discussing this with other coaches and vaulters, the response comes back :"He/she can't bend the heavier pole." or "He/she is a headcase on the bigger poles". For one such vaulter, their coach finally forced them to stiff pole on the "big" and they jumped their PR, the next week they were back on the "noodle" and jumped a foot lower... not the first time this sequence has been seen.

My first year back coaching (a few years ago) after a long layoff I had a very good and experienced (and privately coached elsewhere) high school vaulter who told me she weighed 133lbs, and not being a professional weight guesser I believed her. She was stuck below her PR for most of the season. As we approached the state meet and the inevitable weight in, I brought out the bathroom scale. She weighed 152lbs! So I confiscated the light poles and she went from 10'6" to 12' in the following two weeks. And we avoided the NH that was bound to occur when she got weighed in at the qualifying meet.

My take... the right size pole generally give vaulters better feedback. Technical faults are easier to identify. Stiff pole vaulting will punish you for poor plants and takeoffs. If you want to improve you have to grind away at perfection. "But what about this week's meet and beating the vaulters from Next Suburb High School?" you may ask. If you are determined to jump on that "noodle" for short term results or are a dedicated pole bender, I probably will not sway your choice... even if by doing so you put your program at risk for legal liability should something bad happen. Poles that are too small radically increase your odds of ejecting out the back or off the side of the pit where bad things happen. If the pole is too stiff you will usually know before you let go, so hang on and find a safe way to the ground... then LOWER the grip and find a shorter pole.

There are times when a good coach may have legitimate reasons for you to practice (drill) on a lighter pole. But since good coaches are not generally available for high school vaulters, I recommend you strive to jump on "legal" poles... if your coach is more concerned for "team points" or immediate results than he is for your safety or development as an athlete... then some examination on your part about safety and the pole vault is required.

Warmerdam jumped 15'+ into sawdust on a bamboo pole.
High schoolers were Jumping 12'6"+ in the 1930's on bamboo.
My own grandpa jumped 10' on an ash pole in the 1920's.

I bet they would kill a properly weight rated fiberglass pole... well maybe not Grandpa.

Pole vaulters must be students of the sport. Learn to vault safely on a legal pole of the correct length and the weight rating on the pole you use will never be an issue come weigh-in time. And you might actually vault higher.

[Rhino]

I have an idea!! Let's make a rule that the pole must be rated 20 lbs over the vaulter's weight!! Then let's disqualify anyone who lands outside the PLZ!! Then let's count it as a miss if the vaulter doesn't go over the middle 3 feet of the crossbar!! Let's require masters degrees of all coaches, and require their signed consent before each vault that takes place. And obviously, anyone who has any contrasting stitching in his uniform has to go!!

If we keep working at it, we will eventually get rid of all the misfits that make this sport so unsafe.

[ClintonMagus]

Pardon my ignorance (I'm still new to this sport), but is the pole weight based on the highest permissible hand hold? Would it be possible to modify the rule to specify a maximum hand hold (percentage-wise or something else) on a pole rated below the jumper's weight, or would this simply be impossible to enforce?

[master]

Pardon my ignorance (I'm still new to this sport), but is the pole weight based on the highest permissible hand hold? Would it be possible to modify the rule to specify a maximum hand hold (percentage-wise or something else) on a pole rated below the jumper's weight, or would this simply be impossible to enforce?

Your post gives you more credibility than you give yourself credit for. The vault pole is rated for the highest legal holding position. The implication of your question is true: it could be factored so an under the vaulters' weight pole could safely be used if gripped an appropriate distance lower. But your last comment is also true. It would simply be a nightmare to officiate such a rule.

Just my two cents worth...

[Barefoot]

According to a rep at UCS the poles are rated for weight based on specific construction... the technical details escape my aging brain. Flex numbers are a different kettle of fish I suppose in regards to what the manufacturers regard as safe for a certain weight. My 13' 190 sure feels bulkier than the 14' 170... but that may be a perception issue... technically at a 13' grip they should rate about the same in relative flex. But since even finding someone to run five alive at a meet is a stretch, Imagine trying to police the "hand grip to relative strength rule".

Since we (pole vaulters) got given all these "rules" from high school vaulters dying at a clip of one per year through the eighties and nineties...I don't expect we are going back to the days when a team had a few poles for everyone... certainly not until the personal injury lawyers find better schools and coaches to sue in China.

The smallest pole my high school had in the late seventies was a 14' 150... so unless you were really big or manly freshman you learned by stiff pole. Our big pole was a relic from the sixties, a big browning skypole that we called "the bull". It was 15' long with no visible weight rating, and it returned every vaulter known to us back to the runway. In between were 160, 170, and 180 black, green and gold catapole. We also had one of the best pits in the county which was 14' by 14' with no front buns, a fence running right beside the mats, a box that was never properly set, round base standards with a long nail to set the height, standards usually at zero to 10" cause the ground was bad around the pit and moving them beyond 10" meant the mats might jostle the standards when you landed, sending the triangular metal crossbar into your head. We learned to vault the best we could cause it was seriously dangerous to do otherwise. And we didn't have smaller poles cause if you couldn't bend the 14' 150 we figured you hadn't learned how to vault yet.

Poles were purchased at the rate of maybe one every two or three years, and any vaulter who was over bending a pole was threatening the whole group by potentially breaking an irreplacable object. Vaulters can self police pretty well when the only usable pole for 200 miles is at stake.

But these days... with HUGE mats, anchored standards set at 40 to 80 centemeters (is that even American?), and heaven help us GIRLS vaulting. Whats to keep us from using that good bending 13' 120 the girls use for a really big bend?... It ain't like we're gonna miss the mat... are we?... Uh yeah... you are... Right out the back.

The rule is simple... if you follow it from day one you will be stiff pole vaulting for a while... just like back in the "old days". Don't follow the rule and you may eventually find yourself at big meet on a pole you never mastered, gripping too high and landing in the box.

[Robert schmitt]

I was at a meet yesterday where a kid that has a good coach but the coach wasn't there. Things started clicking and he was almost going off the back of the pit on his 14'3" 190 from 7 lefts during warm ups... he weighs under 176. I talked to him a bit and he had a pole he has 4 stepped as the meet progressed he moved through all of his poles again up thru the 14'3" 190 from four lefts. He still PR'd and one the meet. I still think the best solution is coaching and vaulter education.

[Lax PV]

The rule is simple... if you follow it from day one you will be stiff pole vaulting for a while... just like back in the "old days". Don't follow the rule and you may eventually find yourself at big meet on a pole you never mastered, gripping too high and landing in the box.

I do not coach HS, so I am rather ignorant in the funding situation. That said (as I said before) there are certain poles every program should have, but unfortunately this is usually really light-weight-rated, relatively short poles. What about getting a couple of stiffer 13' foot poles (150-160-170 or so). At $350 a piece, I realize it might take a couple years, but they could turn out to be integral poles to a HS program. I am still convinced (and think I will get very little resistance on this one) that one of the BIGGEST set backs in pole vaulting is not having the right poles.

[Branko720]

I agree. I know that often some of my success is due to the large amount of poles I own. I have a 13' 115 through 13' 175 which is really helpful for my beginners. I know plenty of coaches who do a great job, but because they don't have the poles they are sometimes forced to things they really shouldn't. Not to say i would do this, I will either borrow or buy the next pole but I know there are coaches who have an athlete, lets say for arguments sake, on a 14' 150. The athlete is gripping top and blowing through, but the next pole the coach has access to is a 14'7" 160. Thats a big jump in poles. What is the coach to do? how does he get that kid to make the transition. So to answer the question yes, pole selection is a big problem. I know good coaches who just don't have access to the right equipment.

[Robert schmitt]

We have 47 poles. The 12'4" and 13'3" are for sure the most vital poles for the beginers.
we have roughly our series looks like
10'6" 115
11'4" 115-140
12'4 110-175
13'3" 130-185
14'3" 140-200
14'9" 165-185