eeeeggggghhhhhh...UMD meet (1-16-10) 14'6

[KirkB]

Tom's advice about keeping everything the same ... when you move up a pole ... is exactly correct.

6P, I get the sense that you feel that you MUST raise your grip on the 15' 150 to bend it. While that might have SOME truth when you're holding it below the grip it was designed for (remember the hoop strength thread), this is NOT TRUE for the 14' 17 ... which was designed to be gripped in the 13-14 foot range.

After analyzing this much closer now, there is no doubt in my mind that you should have been on the 14' 170 in your last meet ... it's the right pole for you.

And just in case you didn't get the message yet ... you don't need much more than a 13-3 or 13-6 grip to go well above 15-0 ... so KEEP YOUR GRIP LOW and WORK ON YOUR TECHNIQUE!

Kirk

[joebro391]

Whenever someone says something is out of their control, I look for ways that it can still be done. "this is not my choice" is a cop-out ... take control of YOUR PV career!

Very confusing about the 14' 165, since it's apparently not at college with you.

It's not like I haven't been training, everyday to get fast enough and strong enough to get on poles 40+ lbs over my weight. Perhaps if I had a spare grand lying around, I'd buy some new poles, but I can't convince my coach to get me a "practice pole", as he puts it. And the 14' 165 was my private coach's, it's back in NJ.

I get the sense that you consider the 14' 170 "heavy" and the 15' 150 "light". they're approximately the same stiffness. I don't see why you consider the 170 a "tree-trunk" yet the 150 is not ... but then again I can't visually SEE these 2 poles, so maybe they're different brands?

Perhaps the 15' is a soft 150 and the 14' is a stiff 170?? it just feels much heavier (it's hard to get my hands around the thing), and very resistent to bend (when comparing the poles, while gripping 13'6/13'9 on each)

Do you realize that you COMPLETELY missed the PLZ on that jump ... on the LEFT side? Don't do that again! I'm serious ... if you felt a little "off to the side" as you swung, you should have bailed! The PLZ is there for a reason ... STAY HEALTHY! I don't have the answer for this, but you need to figure out why you landed there ... and do something about it to prevent a recurrence. Props on the PR ... but there was something wrong there that needs to be fixed.

that was the only jump (honestly, one of the ONLY jumps of my career), where that happened. Coach said that I just "swang to the left instead of straight", so I'm not worried. It didn't occur in the following jumps, so it should be considered an anomaly.

The big difference I saw is that with this smaller 14' 165 pole, you were able to swing thru the flat back more-or-less smoothly. THAT'S what you need to do! THAT'S what keeping your grip down will do for you!

didn't think 3 inches would have made much of a difference.

6P, I don't know why you're stressing over the 14' 170 ... that's the next pole up for you. You just need to adjust your grip and run a bit for how you feel on meet day. Even in practice, I don't think you need much adrenalin to get on this pole ... I think it's perfect for you.

Tom's advice about keeping everything the same ... when you move up a pole ... is exactly correct.

6P, I get the sense that you feel that you MUST raise your grip on the 15' 150 to bend it. While that might have SOME truth when you're holding it below the grip it was designed for (remember the hoop strength thread), this is NOT TRUE for the 14' 17 ... which was designed to be gripped in the 13-14 foot range.

After analyzing this much closer now, there is no doubt in my mind that you should have been on the 14' 170 in your last meet ... it's the right pole for you.

And just in case you didn't get the message yet ... you don't need much more than a 13-3 or 13-6 grip to go well above 15-0 ... so KEEP YOUR GRIP LOW and WORK ON YOUR TECHNIQUE!

[/quote]
I agree with Tom too. And my coach and I have agreed that it's what I'll do at my meet, at VTech, tomorrow night (well, it's 12:39am now, so i guess, it's my plan for TONIGHT). Bed Time. -6P

[KirkB]

... my coach and I have agreed that it's what I'll do at my meet, at VTech, tomorrow night (well, it's 12:39am now, so i guess, it's my plan for TONIGHT). Bed Time.

Oh yes ... one last piece of advice ... obviously too late for the VTech meet ... is to get PLENTY OF REST the night before a meet. You'd be surprised what a big difference that makes to how sharp you are during the meet.

Kirk

[vault3rb0y]

I would argue its more important to form a schedule of rest every day of the week. If you are consistent with what you eat, drink, and how much and when you sleep each night, you will feel great the day of the meet. In fact, its really two nights before the meet that you need the most sleep, and the night before you compete you can get away with 6 hours if you have to (although no recommended). The point is that your body responds very well when you form a routine and it gets used to it.

[rainbowgirl28]

The 14'170 is just on a bigger mandrel than you are used to. Gotta cowboy up if you want to jump higher. If you have any poles that are even thicker, do pole runs with them, otherwise do all your pole runs with that pole.

[vcpvcoach]

Joebro,
I would disagree about your thinking you have a "free takeoff". You are under on all of your jumps. As a result, you never get your top arm all the way straight. It looks like you are pulling down but that is a result of being under. It is very subtle. Look to the point of takeoff. Your pole is bending before you leave the ground. This is why your hips are being sucked under and you are having trouble jumping at takeoff. Also, stop the video at the point of takeoff. You are in front of the large white line on the runway. My guess is that you should be out from that line by about three inches for a good "free" takeoff.

I won't get into the right pole for you but I will say that if you drop down your grip, you need to get your step out by that much plus fix your being under. IE if you drop down six inches on your pole, you will need to get your step back six inches or you will be even more under at takeoff. My guess is that you were pumped up for the meet and were running faster than you do in practice.

I would suggest that your coach use a six step mark to gauge your run. See DJ's chart on this board. Should help a lot.

Good luck.

[joebro391]

vcpvcoach: I was certainly not under on all of those jumps. 11'9 is a very free take-off for me, with that grip. The reason why most of them appeared under, was because of a late plant (the bent arm) and not leaping up at take-off (very flat, drive-technique type vault), which was horrible. The reason why i'm getting sucked under the pole is from leaning back, not from being 1cm under (if that). I know that because if i'm leaning forward and as much as 2 feet under (not that I'd EVER want to be) I could still refrain from getting sucked under the pole, if I had a proper forwards lean/chest drive.

I agree with you that I need to grip down, but not on THAT pole. 6 inches lower grip would have me gripping the sail-piece. And dropping 6 inches in grip AND moving back an additional 6 inches in step makes no sense (for my ability at that time). Then i'd just be plain old OUT, with a pole that wouldn't bend. I don't think I was running much faster that day (not as faster as usual anyway), as mush as I was over-striding (which dj's mid-mark chart would do a much better job of helping me with). -6P

[KirkB]

... my meet, at VTech, tomorrow night (well, it's 12:39am now, so i guess, it's my plan for TONIGHT). Bed Time.

Results? Vids? What pole(s) and grips did you use?

Kirk

[joebro391]

UPDATE:

Just got back from VTech meet. I'm very excited. Now, I did everything according to plan. Did a few 3-step straight-pole pop-up's (had no soft pole for that run however), but then I went right back to my 7-left approach. Took 2 jumps on the 14' 160 (17.8flex), first one was a jagodin for comfort and the second one I blew out that back of the pit. Great drive, long swing, no flat-back with a 13'5 grip; I was pumped. I opened at 4.25 with the 14' 170 (16.0flex) with my grip at 13'6 and had more Great Jumps!! I mean, I was happy and my coach was almost shocked (i guess because of how poorly i jumped last week). So I cleared 14' on my second attempt with standards at 80cm (blew through on the first attempt with standards at 60cm). The clear actually wasn't that great of a jump because I took off around 10' (ouch), so I moved the step back about a foot and from there on my step was around 11'6. So I was gonna pass to 4.60, but my coach and I decided to just get some reps in on the pole so I jumped at 4.45. Well all 3 attempts I blew through the pole (all while exhibiting great form), on the third attempt my coach advised me to move my grip up to about 13'8-ish, in an attempt to "slow the pole rotation" but it proved futile and I landed beyond the coach's box...

So even though I jumped lower than last week, I'm ecstatic because of how great the jumps were/felt and because now I know I can actually perform proper technique from a 7, on big poles. Really, the only next place for me to go is to a 15-footer (we have no stiffer 14', except a 185). Any input? I'll have a link to the video as soon as my coach posts it on his website. Thanks for all your help guys. -6P

[KirkB]

... I'm ecstatic because of how great the jumps were/felt and because now I know I can actually perform proper technique from a 7, on big poles. Really, the only next place for me to go is to a 15-footer (we have no stiffer 14', except a 185). Any input?

Nice going, 6P!

Had to check my conversion table for the metric bars ...

Code: Select all

4.25 = 13-11.3 X from 7 lefts on the 14' 170 gripping 13-6, standards at 60
4.25 = 13-11.3 O from 7 lefts on the 14' 170 gripping 13-6, standards at 80
4.45 = 14-07.2 X from 7 lefts on the 14' 170 gripping 13-6, standards at 80
4.45 = 14-07.2 X from 7 lefts on the 14' 170 gripping 13-6, standards at 80
4.45 = 14-07.2 X from 7 lefts on the 14' 170 gripping 13-8, standards at 80
4.60 = 15-01.1

Well, now you know that you can't raise your grip on a soft pole to slow down the pole's rotation. That's never going to work ... I thought you knew that!

It's the length of the CHORD of the pole that determines pole rotation ... so the higher you raise your grip, the more you're going to sink down ... thus the more you'll blow thru. In that situation ... I would have either DROPPED the grip a couple inches ... or used the 15' 150 with EXACTLY THE SAME GRIP ... 13-6.

The other lesson that I hope you learned (remember ... my comments are all hindsight) is that you should have warmed up on your competition pole. Maybe you ran out of time, but only one full practice jump on a light pole (the 14' 160) that you blow thru isn't much of a warmup. You need to get the feel for the pole you'll be using in the comp ... WITHOUT blowing thru. Of course you didn't KNOW you were going to blow thru on the 14' 160 until you did ... but as soon as you DID, you should have tried to squeeze in another practice jump ... on the 14' 170.

Next lesson is that you should have had your standards at 80 from the start.

Third lesson is that you should have moved up to the 15' 150 on the SECOND attempt at 4.45 ... after you already blew thru on the first one. What made you think you wouldn't do exactly the same on the second attempt? Or the third? I hope you learned that if you're blowing thru ... and if you're pumped ... and if you've only had 2 practice jumps (one, really) ... and if you blow thru on your 3rd comp jump (1st attempt at 4.45) ... then you still have plenty of gas in the tank ... so you're not going to be running slower (thus not blowing thru) ... you're going to be running FASTER!

By the way ... while I'm scolding you about lessons learned (tough ) ... you almost made ANOTHER mistake ... passing to 4.60. What were you thinking? What was your game plan? If you blew thru the 1st comp jump at 4.25 (I know you had the standards too close ... but a blow thru is a blow thru) ... then you would most certainly have to turn on the gas to go 13. 8 inches higher ... which would most certainly cause you to blow thru even more!

6P, these are all rookie mistakes ... and you'll have lots more as you progress thru your season. Don't worry about them ... just learn from them. It's especially a difficult time to know what pole and grip to use when your technique (and/or athleticism) is improving so quickly ... the problem is always to have the "next" pole ready in your bag ... so don't fret too much. NOW, you just need to gain experience on the 14' 170 IN PRACTICE ... and then the 15' 150. By the outdoor season, you'll be laughing at yourself at how you were "afraid" of not bending these poles enough in the indoor season!

I'll have more comments after I see the vid.

Kirk

[joebro391]

thanks Kirk. And I don't consider it tough love, I consider it the truth, since I agreed with everything you said. I'll put it all to good use at my next meet, this weekend at Liberty University. -6P

PS: oh yea, after the warm-up blow-through on the 14' 160, time was running out, I hopped on the runway with the 14' 170 and...ran through...my bad haha, don't worry, things will be great this coming weekend

[KirkB]

6P, you're going to need more poles this year ... I hope your coach has some budget $ for this. I'm skeptical that the 15' 150 will do you THAT much good, as it's the same relative flex as the 14' 170 that you're already blowing thru. It might be a BIT stiffer ... but not much ... and your grip isn't high enough for it anyway.

Here's an update of the Relative Resistance Chart (http://www.skyjumpers.com/articles/relitive_resistance_chart.html) that I gave you a snippet of earlier. This one includes that 14' 185 log you mentioned.

6P's College Poles (including the 14' 185).JPG (21.28 KiB) Viewed 2404 times

I highlighted the ones you have at college in yellow, and the ones you might need soon in green. The next pole up for you is a 14' 175, and then either a 14' 180 or a 14-6 170. After that, the 14' 185 MIGHT be OK, but by the time you're ready for it, you might have to cap it ... which is OK ... but you need to fill the 2-pole gap between that one and your current one first anyway.

I know you're not made of money, nor is your college, but you're going to need SOME stiffer poles to last the year. Beg, borrow, rent, or steal are you other options ... you shouldn't have to constrain your PR due to lack of pole selection.

Alternatively, you could lengthen your run and go for broke with the 14' 185. Just an

Kirk