6P - 10-19-08 - Great Practice

[joebro391]

HEY GUYS!!! how's it going?? here's the latest and greatest. in this edition, i got jumps for the whole family. i even got some stiff-poling on film. AND!! i think i accomplished the GREATEST TECHNICAL VAULT OF MY CAREER SO FAR!!! which is cool considering it was windy, and never reached above 55 degrees <---- RED CHEEKS hehehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXyNTkJgRVM

Okay, here's the rundown:

Strait-Poling: um...the felt good and i focused mainly on holding up the drive-knee and leaving the trail-leg back. I also too PP's advice and went on a pole that i had no shot of bending from this run

JUMP 1: I absolutely crushed that pole and i hated how my trail-leg broke, so early (as it was swinging through).

JUMP 2: I think i took off, a little out, and I also allowed the pole to get ahead of my hips, causing me to shoot out, instead of up )=

JUMP 3: I took off, under, and i went strait to my back. only good thing, was that i recovered enough to get my hips up, and i didn't shoot out

JUMP 4: I think I took of, a little out causing me to "jump onto the pole" and I broke my trail leg early, as it was swinging through. despite the loss of energy, i still blew through the pole and had a decent top end (=

JUMP 5: hmmm...not too sure about this jump. I think i just took off out again, once again, causing me to jump "onto" the pole. despite the messy bottom, i think i had another decent top end

JUMP 6 (the bit tamale): NOW, i feel that this was the cleanest jump i've ever done, from any run, on any pole. at this point in the pratice, i felt that i had been going to my back, too early, causing me to loose energy. SO, on this jump, i said "okay, i'm gonna focus all my energy on SWINGING LONG, through the cord of the pole" So i did it, and this was the result . I think i only hit the bungee cause the standards were BURRIED

So let me know what you guys think. -6P

[KirkB]

6P, your vaults today do seem to be a good improvement over your technique in previous vids.

However (hard-nosed advice coming up), you seem to be vaulting twice a week (correct me if I'm wrong), yet your first meet won't be until early next year, right? When next year? I just get the feeling that you need to improve your gymnastics technique quite a bit, before you try to "perfect" your vaulting technique.

Your swing was really quite good today, especially in comparison to your gym swing. So you take a bit (but just a bit) of the wind out of my sails, as I can't say that your swing is way too slow now. It's no longer "way too slow", but it's still "too slow".

IMHO, it won't get faster by just repetitive vault practice. In fact, you take the risk of imprinting your slow swing into your "best vaulting technique", to the point that it will become more and more difficult to change later.

I'd rather see you figure out how to swing FASTER (gym, soccer ...), and then once you get THAT figured out, get back on the pole and apply what you've learned.

IMHO, gym practice isn't superfluous (or even secondary) to vaulting practice - especially at this time of the year (the off-season). Rather, it's INTEGRAL to vaulting practice.

I won't have this same advice mid-season. That's when you need to do more vaulting and less gymnastics. But getting back to my first question, aren't you in your off-season right now? Then isn't this when you should be speeding up your swing? (Not to mention other technical points that we're not even getting to yet.)

I'm not trying to slow you down. Far from it. But what are you doing IN THE GYM to speed up your swing?

In my experience, if I couldn't do something in the gym, I didn't have a hope in hell of doing it on the pole.

Here's a question for you ...

In your standing back somi, how were you able to land on your feet? You did that trick so well, especially in comparison to the other tricks on the rings and highbar. How?

Kirk

[joebro391]

hmmm, very interesting questions today haha.

6P, your vaults today do seem to be a good improvement over your technique in previous vids.

However (hard-nosed advice coming up), you seem to be vaulting twice a week (correct me if I'm wrong), yet your first meet won't be until early next year, right? When next year? I just get the feeling that you need to improve your gymnastics technique quite a bit, before you try to "perfect" your vaulting technique.

well, the thing is, i have to start bumping up my PR a bit, so i honestly didn't have an off season, this year. BUT, i am gonna start only vaulting once a week because of the 'daylight' issue.

I'd rather see you figure out how to swing FASTER (gym, soccer ...), and then once you get THAT figured out, get back on the pole and apply what you've learned.

IMHO, gym practice isn't superfluous (or even secondary) to vaulting practice - especially at this time of the year (the off-season). Rather, it's INTEGRAL to vaulting practice...But what are you doing IN THE GYM to speed up your swing?

well i just came up with the soccer idea, so i'm gonna get on that, tomorrow. and as for the gym, i'm heading there in 10 minutes to coach and do some drills

Here's a question for you ...

In your standing back somi, how were you able to land on your feet? You did that trick so well, especially in comparison to the other tricks on the rings and highbar. How?

ah, see, when i did gymnastics, i primarily was a tumbler. i never really did ring and high-bar work. all i did was floor. big mistake, as i'm finding out )=. However, i am a decent technician when it comes to flips, especially considering my legs are so powerful for my weight (i could squat 300lbs when i only weighed 120lbs). -6P

[KirkB]

6P, a few followups ...

1. I would like to pin you down to an exact date of your first meet coming up. When is it?

2. What is your PR goal (a) prior to this first meet, and (b) in this first meet?

3. What do you need to clear to make div or state? When are they?

4. Are there any other IMPORTANT meets that you want to peak for?

5. What year of HS are you in?

6. What's your age/ht/wt/PR? Now, and in prevous years.

7. What do you think I mean by "imprinting"?

8. How long did it take you to become a good tumbler?

Kirk

[KirkB]

6P, I forgot one question.

CAUTION: Sarcastic, hard-nosed, meatgrinder, tough-love advice coming up ...

... and as for the gym, i'm heading there in 10 minutes to coach and do some drills

I'm so happy for you that you're going to the gym, and you'll be going thru the motions of some drills.

BUT I wasn't actually asking you where or when.

I was asking you HOW???

What're you gonna do???

What will you do TODAY that makes an impact on your vaulting technique TOMORROW??? (I'm not referring to 24-hour days.)

Kirk

[VTechVaulter]

i recommend moving in at least a food. and learning to accelerate the last few steps. they are all a bit long and reach causing you to pull down on the handle of the pole. the top of the pole should never move down. watch the really good vaulters it rises all the time. (this is also better for your poles long term health). also i think with better turn over and jumping up into the pole (as opposed to jumping onto it). you will be able to get better initial punch with the left arm and penetration with the chest.

other than that, the swing and extension look much better.

i do have to respectfully disagree with one point of kirkb's. obviously hes knows his stuff and has brought a lot of great discussion to the board but i do believe that its not a bad thing to be jumping twice a week. for one thing vaulting is the most specific vault training there is. i know a lot of people who are great in the gymnastics room and cant swing to save their own lives on the pole. however.. you def. need to incorporate all of the other aspect too. a nice general principle would be the follow the twos if you can

every week
vault twice
run twice
lift twice (or circuit training depending on age)
gymnastics twice
and rest two days (preferrably the day before you jump day)

if your looking for more specific work outs, drop me a pm and we can discuss it further there

[powerplant42]

i recommend moving in at least a food.

Ha! I agree 100%!
Actually, this is quite interesting... I believe that moving in is a very good idea, and I'll explain why later on tonight.

Your limiting factor remains your swing. It must be quicker. I think you also need to focus on becoming faster down the runway... I believe that is next in line. You and I aren't that much different in skill, but I know that I am much faster than your are, because I can cap a 13' 155 from somewhere between 3-4 lefts.

CONTINUE STIFF POLING! HIGH BAR, STIFF POLE IN THE SAND, HIGH BAR, STIFF POLE ON THE PIT, REPEAT!

(And KB, I am going to put up my sand vaulting very soon... I can't wait for your post forever. Becca has put up some pretty interesting sand vauling video that I must respond to with MY tapes. Expect my first video forum post to be up within the week! )

[joebro391]

1. I would like to pin you down to an exact date of your first meet coming up. When is it?

um, my first 'season' meet, will be in January (unless i go to an open meet, in the meantime) BUT, i do have a USATF-sanctioned meet, this sunday, for halloween. i would love to wear a cape and go over, but, i want to see what i can crank my PR up to, for colleges.

2. What is your PR goal (a) prior to this first meet, and (b) in this first meet?

idk really. i jumped 14' with 9 inches of clearence, and then spent a few weeks, on short runs, cleaning up my technique. i really think that, now that i'm not shooting out so much, i can't jump at least 14'6, possibly 15' if i get on a nice 14' 160.

3. What do you need to clear to make div or state? When are they?

um...nothing really. the state qualifiers vary each year. usually, the FINAL state meet, opening, is 13' - 13'6.

4. Are there any other IMPORTANT meets that you want to peak for?

not really, i honestly would rather peak now, so that i can get a PR that collegs like, so i can get accepted to a good university.

5. What year of HS are you in?

ah, i'm sure that after all the mentions of college, you can tell that i'm a senior. That's why i'm working so hard now, to get that PR up for schools to look at. i figure i'll take a nice break, at the end of spring (aside from a few days, here and there)

6. What's your age/ht/wt/PR? Now, and in prevous years.

I am 17 (will be 18 in March), I'm 5'7, I weight 130lbs and my current PR is 14'. (i finished last season with a bummy 12')

7. What do you think I mean by "imprinting"?
um...i think you mean: by repatition, my 'muscle memory' will be able to do the "act" without much conscious though

8. How long did it take you to become a good tumbler?

hmmm...that's a toughy. i always used to do crazy acrobatic stuff (like hanging for the moneky bars and age 3) or doing handstands and cartwheels in elementary school. and then i started taking Capoeira (brazilian rhythmic style) and then i just decided that i wanted to flip. so i just started flipping one day, and was pretty decent. so then i started going to a gymnastics class and learned more advanced stuff (the same gym, where i coach now). if i had to give you a time frame, i'd say...i learned my first back-handspring in an hour. and i learned my first backtuck, also, in like and hour. i just had a lot of power, and it was just a matter of not being afriad and going for the flip. that's how i started vaulting. my head coach saw me do a flip in gym class and said "yea...he's a vaulter" hehehe

[joebro391]

I was asking you HOW???

What're you gonna do???

What will you do TODAY that makes an impact on your vaulting technique TOMORROW??? (I'm not referring to 24-hour days.)Kirk

well, now that i'm back, haha, i did bubka's (and they honestly felt better than saturday) and i did some whip-swings. I was especially experimenting with those, and i discovered that when i get that real "pre-stretch" in my shoulders, i can kick 1000x harder and faster . i didn't have my camera, but i'll get them for you, this saturday.

I ALSO do this drill where i start standing, 'fall' backwards, start rolling along my back, rolling over my head, and pushing up into a handstand. like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6JeZ976Sqw&NR=1

[joebro391]

i recommend moving in at least a food.

Ha! I agree 100%!
Actually, this is quite interesting... I believe that moving in is a very good idea, and I'll explain why later on tonight.

hmmm....not a foot. maybe a few inches, but if i move in a foot, i'll be taking off under, and i'm not gonna vault that way. honestly, i think why i was out, on some of the jumps, was because it was cold, and i wasn't running as fast. i shoulda moved in a few more inches to compansate (in addition the the few that i already had) but my coach and i both felt that, if i leapt a bit better, my hips would continue to rise, with the pole and in turn, i wouldn't have the problem (going back to my thread about leaping at take-off) : viewtopic.php?f=37&t=16079

Your limiting factor remains your swing. It must be quicker. I think you also need to focus on becoming faster down the runway... I believe that is next in line. You and I aren't that much different in skill, but I know that I am much faster than your are, because I can cap a 13' 155 from somewhere between 3-4 lefts.

me too, i just don't cap because i'm afraid i'll snap the pole haha

CONTINUE STIFF POLING! HIGH BAR, STIFF POLE IN THE SAND, HIGH BAR, STIFF POLE ON THE PIT, REPEAT!

i totally agree, and i will be doing this much more often in the future

[powerplant42]

me too, i just don't cause i'm afraid i'll snap the pole].

Unlikely (that you'll snap the pole... you're afraid you'll snap it from 3-4 and you go from 5!?). Let's see what you can grip on certain poles from 3 steps. I'll see if I can beat you!

i discovered that when i get that real "pre-stretch" in my shoulders, i can kick 1000x harder and faster .

I was not aiming for shoulders, but ok. I was looking for hips... You seemed to lack 'forward' hips in your swings on the bar. Push the shoulders forward, then most importantly (I think) the hips, then snap the foot/leg through.

I ALSO do this drill where i start standing, 'fall' backwards, start rolling along my back, rolling over my head, and pushing up into a handstand. like here:

These are good. Do you do them with a spotter (that pushes you back to your feet or whatever)? You could use a wall I guess. DID YOU TRY THE POOL NOODLE!? (I'm very curious, because I think it is an excellent idea!)

Oh, and KB, I started my log today... (I didn't do it yesterday, because that is more a coaching day for me.) I think it will really help me get my training goals, direction, and thoughts all STRAIGHTENED OUT!

powerplant42 wrote:
i recommend moving in at least a food.
Ha! I agree 100%!
Actually, this is quite interesting... I believe that moving in is a very good idea, and I'll explain why later on tonight.

hmmm....not a foot. maybe a few inches, but if i move in a foot, i'll be taking off under, and i'm not gonna vault that way.

Well the 'Ha!' was just me chortling at Brian's typo. But! He might be on to something! Let me explain.

First of all, do you really think that I'm proposing that you take-off under? Shame on you.

No. I am proposing that you play with your run. Let me recount what happened to me just today...

I was having one of 'my' athletes (that you'll all see in my upcoming video) doing 2 step sand Jagodins. They were struggling to hit a pre-jump, and had an 'off' plant (I couldn't quite put my finger on exactly WHAT was wrong with it, I knew it was slow, but WHY?). Anyway, I had them move in about a foot and a half (ON A TWO STEP). The result was a very well executed pre-jump with good pole speed. Here's why: 'Striding out', in whatever form, is a BAD THING. It doesn't matter how little it is, it is BAD. (With the exception of the penultimate step, of course.) It lowers your center of gravity, which one can imagine, is quite undesirable, because it puts you in a bad position for the next stride and thus, the plant and take-off. I would need to see you vault in person to diagnose this. Unfortunately, I cannot. But this is a hypothesis that I would like to see put to the test... so at your next session, move in 24" from 5 steps. This sounds like a lot, I know. I recall hearing a story about Petrov moving Isinbayeva's full vault run in by just as much (I think) at a major competition, and everyone was perplexed! (She was consistently taking off under.) This all sounds counterintuitive, but that is often the case in the vault! (Spend some time reading agapit's 'Manifesto' or 'Repent' threads and you'll know what I'm talking about...!) If 2 feet turns out to be a little too much, move back to 18", then 12", then just 6". However, to make the most of these adjustments to your run, you must do one thing very well... GET YOUR FEET DOWN FAST! ESPECIALLY in the last 3 lefts when the plant occurs.

Try it.

[VTechVaulter]

no you wont be out.. if you turn the steps over. count the rhythem out loud. your steps get longer as you approach the box. heres a challenge. keep moving in 3 inches a time, and turning over faster. i bet you will find you can move in and your step will actually come out. one day in practice i did this and moved in 18 inches and kept the same take off step, mid only came in about 7 or 8 inches. and i ended up going up poles because i was taller and faster at the end.