Pole Vault Manifesto

[agapit]

would not the goal of the plant be to place the body in the optimal position to swing as soon as the toe leaves the ground?

Yes.

[agapit]

Volteur. I agree with you. Efim is extremely intelligent person and a great coach. I have had a chance to meet with him and his son Julian few times when I lived in Australia.

Limited English at the time (93? 97?) meant it was more sign language than anything else.
[quote]

It was 91 or 92 old man. LOL Sep 1992 I was already in the States.

[volteur]

Did you not come back at some stage? So it was probably 92. Go figure.

So how has your thinking about this on-off-on-off progressed in the meantime? (16 years?)

ps you still look like you should be out there vaulting!

[agapit]

Did you not come back at some stage? So it was probably 92. Go figure.

So how has your thinking about this on-off-on-off progressed in the meantime? (16 years?)

ps you still look like you should be out there vaulting!

I busted my knee in Adelaide in 1991, so it was that for my professional career.

As to the "on" "off" "on" "off", perhaps to clarify this I should say that there are unfortunately on and off phases, but what we should try to do is to eliminate "off" phases. This is the whole point of all including free take-off, inversion without delay, pull-push over that bar.

The dream vaulter would have one very intense "ON" phase from the first step to the pole release. This is where athletic ability could really leap us into the new heights 21+.

[golfdane]

If the swing phase is basically a counter-reaction to the take-off and in this sense is passive, what is the active intention behind the take-off?

Volteur

I don't see the swing phase as passive. A proper executed swing allows for some serious loading of the pole, and is therefore not passive. The kick of the trailing leg provides a good deal of energy into the pole, and facilitates inversion.

The active free take-off, where the vaulter increases his launch angle in comparison to a normal stride, provides an upgoing momentum on the pole/vaulter system, that will stack with any reactions from the pole, providing increased polespeed, allowing for a higher grip (using a slightly longer pole and slightly more flexible pole).

[volteur]

If the swing phase is basically a counter-reaction to the take-off and in this sense is passive, what is the active intention behind the take-off?

Volteur

I don't see the swing phase as passive. A proper executed swing allows for some serious loading of the pole, and is therefore not passive. The kick of the trailing leg provides a good deal of energy into the pole, and facilitates inversion.

The active free take-off, where the vaulter increases his launch angle in comparison to a normal stride, provides an upgoing momentum on the pole/vaulter system, that will stack with any reactions from the pole, providing increased polespeed, allowing for a higher grip (using a slightly longer pole and slightly more flexible pole).

There is something about it though. For one i don't think it is a swing. Also it is a reaction to the takeoff. I agree there is something on through the entire vault yet there is also something else which is more on-off. Possibly the reactionary element is the off bit and what we do is add to that force with our active force in all sorts of ways?

I guess i see the counter-reaction to the take-off as providing a lot of the energy and the more effective the take-off the more we get from this source.

[powerplant42]

If the swing is only a reaction to the take-off, then why even train it? Why not just train your take-off instead? One trains it because it is an opportunity to conserve/add energy into the system with the abdominal muscles. The 'reaction' you're talking about gets the swing started, but the vaulter must ACTIVELY swing, that is, not just let momentum do all the work.

[volteur]

If the swing is only a reaction to the take-off, then why even train it? Why not just train your take-off instead? One trains it because it is an opportunity to conserve/add energy into the system with the abdominal muscles. The 'reaction' you're talking about gets the swing started, but the vaulter must ACTIVELY swing, that is, not just let momentum do all the work.

yes agreed there is some sort of active component. But what exactly? Do you swing the foot like a kick or maybe like a tap from gymnastics. Or?

[vault3rb0y]

Or just expanding all the muscles from your top hand to your trail-leg quad muscle, then contracting them as soon as they are fully expanded. This action applies force from your muscles to your top hand, and into the pole.

The active component is angular acceleration and since we are accelerating mass, it is also force. I guess i might not be sure what you are talking about, because i thought we got past this a few pages back.


The only thing i can think of, is that the ON part is all the things we do to add energy, and the OFF part is simply the losses of energy to friction and improper positioning. Thats all i got, otherwise im not sure what you are talking about. Those two things sometimes cancel out after take off, sometimes it is more or less energy lost or added after takeoff.

[agapit]

If the swing phase is basically a counter-reaction to the take-off and in this sense is passive, what is the active intention behind the take-off?

Volteur

I don't see the swing phase as passive. A proper executed swing allows for some serious loading of the pole, and is therefore not passive. The kick of the trailing leg provides a good deal of energy into the pole, and facilitates inversion.

You see this is a common mistake. Swing by itself does not contribute any additional energy in to the system. Unless it is accelerated and the only way to accelerate it is to apply force through your hands attached to the pole. This force could only be generated with your arms, chest abdominal muscles and hip flexors. So as you can imagine the swing itself is passive the pull on the pole is active.

[golfdane]

If the swing is only a reaction to the take-off, then why even train it? Why not just train your take-off instead? One trains it because it is an opportunity to conserve/add energy into the system with the abdominal muscles. The 'reaction' you're talking about gets the swing started, but the vaulter must ACTIVELY swing, that is, not just let momentum do all the work.

yes agreed there is some sort of active component. But what exactly? Do you swing the foot like a kick or maybe like a tap from gymnastics. Or?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_l-4YC1VSk

[volteur]

You see this is a common mistake. Swing by itself does not contribute any additional energy in to the system. Unless it is accelerated and the only way to accelerate it is to apply force through your hands attached to the pole. This force could only be generated with your arms, chest abdominal muscles and hip flexors. So as you can imagine the swing itself is passive the pull on the pole is active.

Nice a passive swing that has an active effect. This seeems to be what i couldn't define. Ta.