How many poles is it?

[monopoly00]

How many poles is it between a 12'0 123.5 lb, and a 13'6 135 lb pole? I had to make this change not to long ago.

[vaultguru6]

a whole lot

[PVJunkie]

WELL one of the poles is an essx and the other would be...............??? Between Bruce and I we could answer this.

[Russ]

I'll stick my neck out on this one.

Roughly speaking, the difference between a 12-123.5 pole and a 13'6-135 comes out to be a difference of about 40 lbs. (41.5) in stiffness (assuming that 6 inches is roughly equal to 10 lbs, right guys?). So I calculate a 30 lb. difference just for the foot and a half difference between 12-0 and 13'6, plus another 11.5 lbs. just in the weight differential between 123.5 and 135. Assuuming that we typically think of the transition from one pole to the next in terms of 5 lb. increments, that translates into approx. an 8-pole difference between the 12-123.5 and the 13'6-135. Of course this calculation does not factor in the flex numbers or the differences between pole manufacturers, it is merely a ballpark.

Hey Wookie, how am I doing on this math?

[vaultguru6]

i think its closer to 5-7 lbs per 6 inches of pole legnth...but still probably about 5-6 poles imbetween

[monopoly00]

Yes, the smaller pole is an ESSX, and the bigger pole is a Sky pole.

[Decamouse]

5-7 or 10 lbs per 6 inches - you are all correct - if it is the correct pole and length and how far down you are holding or checking from the original flex fulcrum points - thats why they are rules of thumb - not facts - it varies

[Bruce Caldwell]

I'll stick my neck out on this one.

Roughly speaking, the difference between a 12-123.5 pole and a 13'6-135 comes out to be a difference of about 40 lbs. (41.5) in stiffness (assuming that 6 inches is roughly equal to 10 lbs, right guys?). So I calculate a 30 lb. difference just for the foot and a half difference between 12-0 and 13'6, plus another 11.5 lbs. just in the weight differential between 123.5 and 135. Assuuming that we typically think of the transition from one pole to the next in terms of 5 lb. increments, that translates into approx. an 8-pole difference between the 12-123.5 and the 13'6-135. Of course this calculation does not factor in the flex numbers or the differences between pole manufacturers, it is merely a ballpark.

Russ that was a great answer and your "rule of thumb" (Ball ParK ) 5 Lbs is close. For future use 5-7 lbs if you are comparing an equal flex to an equal flex. Stiff to stiff, med to med, and soft to soft.

If the 12-123.2 ? is an ESSX it would be really 12’4â€Â

[Decamouse]

As I understand it - a kg wgt or a lb weight is just that a wgt value assigned baed on a flex measurement. Neither is more accurate - since flex numbers are not based on a ASTM standard, they are simply a measurement method (particular to that company - it can and does vary from pole manufacturer to manufacturer) used to measure relative stiffness from which a weight value is then assigned based on a whole lot of historical data and real world experiences. The theoretical vaulter with a given level of physical traits, attributes and skills will be able to safely use this pole (assuming he doesn't exhibit a human trait and make a mistake). At this time there is no accurate (from an Engineering Sense) or precise engineering formula to base the weight rating of poles on. What you have is a relative system that allows you to get close to what works for most people and then you adjust up or down based on the "relative rating or stiffness" - That is not to say people are not working on different ways to test and rate poles - this forum as I understand it is to provide a place for vault nuts to interact and pass along good info - we will try not to skew facts or use it as a marketing tool.

[rainbowgirl28]

As I understand it - a kg wgt or a lb weight is just that a wgt value assigned baed on a flex measurement. Neither is more accurate - since flex numbers are not based on a ASTM standard, they are simply a measurement method (particular to that company - it can and does vary from pole manufacturer to manufacturer) used to measure relative stiffness from which a weight value is then assigned based on a whole lot of historical data and real world experiences.

Do you guys think the ASTM will tackle the flex numbers issue after they are done with helmets?

[Decamouse]

While there is some people pushing for this - until some of the details - rational - standards can be worked out and agreed upon - it will be awhile - the whole flex chart concept has some weak areas - it is the best thing going - but - to get it to be an ASTM standard - lots of questions and gray areas need to be resolved. We are working on the gray areas -

[Bruce Caldwell]

As I understand it - a kg wgt or a lb weight is just that a wgt value assigned baed on a flex measurement. Neither is more accurate - since flex numbers are not based on a ASTM standard, they are simply a measurement method (particular to that company - it can and does vary from pole manufacturer to manufacturer) used to measure relative stiffness from which a weight value is then assigned based on a whole lot of historical data and real world experiences. The theoretical vaulter with a given level of physical traits, attributes and skills will be able to safely use this pole (assuming he doesn't exhibit a human trait and make a mistake). At this time there is no accurate (from an Engineering Sense) or precise engineering formula to base the weight rating of poles on. What you have is a relative system that allows you to get close to what works for most people and then you adjust up or down based on the "relative rating or stiffness" - That is not to say people are not working on different ways to test and rate poles - this forum as I understand it is to provide a place for vault nuts to interact and pass along good info - we will try not to skew facts or use it as a marketing tool.

I really do agree with you. This is the only method we have to measure that is used by all manufacturers.
And the reference to ASTM Standard there is no such standard so we cannot make reference to it yet..
All poles vary by design, and diameter, other variables not available to the public that can assert finite details that are so minut it is not worth complicating the reader.

As far as the dig!

I personally cannot see how helping vaulters move from an ESSX poles to a Pacer, Skypole, Altius, Spirit, and Nordic poles is a marketing tool for ESSX?????????
Providing the reference was to help explain what I said.