buttplug
Moderator: Barto
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PvaultinGirl
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PvaultinGirl
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wow we posted at the same time! lol. I really want peoples personal oppinions here. do you think that it's a stupid meathod, that it will or won't work, that you'de laugh if you saw it, that it's not bad or good, or if you think it's great....just say it. I am really curiose to hear peoples oppions on this here. 
POLE VAULTING....Fear is NOT and option!
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lonestar
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Well I guess it's finally time I put in my 2 cents here:
I think pushing/sliding (but definitely not dragging) the pole is a very effective technique. I personally have every vaulter I coach do all of their pop-ups and short run vaults using this method for a number of reasons:
1) It takes the plant essentially out of the equation. There is a lot of room for error in the planting action, and by removing it, allows the vaulter to focus on other aspects of the vault, such as swing. The tricky part is getting the free hand on the pole at the right time in the right position, but that doesn't take long to figure out how to do it correctly.
2) In observation of my club members pushing the pole, I can tell you for a fact they run more aggressively this way because they're not concerned with missing the box with their plant (a common beginner fault). The free arm allows for more upper body movement during the run which leads to greater acceleration since sprinting is a full body action. Their starting mark usually needs to move back a foot when they switch to pushing from traditional carry.
3) Plant alignment problems have been reduced because the top arm simply pushes straight up, whereas "roundhousing" and other problems can occur in the traditional pole carry and plant.
4) Wind is much less of a factor since the pole tip is on the ground and doesn't get pushed by crosswinds or lifted by headwinds.
The negative aspects include:
a) Not all facilities will accomodate this style due to boxes that have been set improperly with a raised "lip" on the front edge, runways with long or triple jump boards on them, runways with holes or wide cracks, and rough surface runways.
b) Wear on the "pole tip" (not buttplug). Rubber tips cause way too much friction, but we've found that the new tips made by Gill hold up very well. You just need to rotate them once in awhile for even wear.
c) You don't receive the "unweighting" or "lift" effect of a smooth pole drop in the box (known to some as the drop tip technique).
d) You can fumble or miss the pole on the "grab" with the bottom hand.
I've actually had several girls in my club jump higher using the "push-plant" than they did with the traditional pole carry and plant. Many of my athletes prefer this method, but it's important that they be versatile and able to perform a traditional plant when the facility necessitates it.
I did speak with Tye Harvey about this last spring, and he seemed very enthusiastic about it, especially with regard to beginners. I don't know if there is any clear advantage from one style to the other, but it's definitely something worth trying.
Kris
I think pushing/sliding (but definitely not dragging) the pole is a very effective technique. I personally have every vaulter I coach do all of their pop-ups and short run vaults using this method for a number of reasons:
1) It takes the plant essentially out of the equation. There is a lot of room for error in the planting action, and by removing it, allows the vaulter to focus on other aspects of the vault, such as swing. The tricky part is getting the free hand on the pole at the right time in the right position, but that doesn't take long to figure out how to do it correctly.
2) In observation of my club members pushing the pole, I can tell you for a fact they run more aggressively this way because they're not concerned with missing the box with their plant (a common beginner fault). The free arm allows for more upper body movement during the run which leads to greater acceleration since sprinting is a full body action. Their starting mark usually needs to move back a foot when they switch to pushing from traditional carry.
3) Plant alignment problems have been reduced because the top arm simply pushes straight up, whereas "roundhousing" and other problems can occur in the traditional pole carry and plant.
4) Wind is much less of a factor since the pole tip is on the ground and doesn't get pushed by crosswinds or lifted by headwinds.
The negative aspects include:
a) Not all facilities will accomodate this style due to boxes that have been set improperly with a raised "lip" on the front edge, runways with long or triple jump boards on them, runways with holes or wide cracks, and rough surface runways.
b) Wear on the "pole tip" (not buttplug). Rubber tips cause way too much friction, but we've found that the new tips made by Gill hold up very well. You just need to rotate them once in awhile for even wear.
c) You don't receive the "unweighting" or "lift" effect of a smooth pole drop in the box (known to some as the drop tip technique).
d) You can fumble or miss the pole on the "grab" with the bottom hand.
I've actually had several girls in my club jump higher using the "push-plant" than they did with the traditional pole carry and plant. Many of my athletes prefer this method, but it's important that they be versatile and able to perform a traditional plant when the facility necessitates it.
I did speak with Tye Harvey about this last spring, and he seemed very enthusiastic about it, especially with regard to beginners. I don't know if there is any clear advantage from one style to the other, but it's definitely something worth trying.
Kris
Any scientist who can't explain to an eight-year-old what he is doing is a charlatan. K Vonnegut
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jmayesvaultmom
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"a) Not all facilities will accomodate this style due to boxes that have been set improperly with a raised "lip" on the front edge, runways with long or triple jump boards on them, runways with holes or wide cracks, and rough surface runways. "
Tell the truth....you've been to Arkansas and you're making fun of many our high school track facilities
Tell the truth....you've been to Arkansas and you're making fun of many our high school track facilities
That's Jodie!!
A scripture that makes me think of all you girls and guys pole vaulting....
Habakkuk 3:19
The Sovereign LORD is my strength;
he makes my feet like the feet of a deer,
he enables me to go on the heights.
A scripture that makes me think of all you girls and guys pole vaulting....
Habakkuk 3:19
The Sovereign LORD is my strength;
he makes my feet like the feet of a deer,
he enables me to go on the heights.
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PVJunkie
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- Expertise: Pole Specialist, Former College Vaulter, Masters Vaulter, HS Coach, Fan, Parent, College Coach
Why pole tips instead of butt plugs?!?! As most of you already know i sell, talk, live, breath etc etc track equip every day. Yes it is the butt end of the pole and it is a plug however it is also a tip and it goes on the end of the pole. Butt plug is old school and pole tip is the modern terminology. I work for a manufac. of poles and we dont call the buttplugs so while i CAN sell you new pole tips for your vaulting poles I cannot sell you a butt plug for any purpose (lol). Of course we all know what your asking for when you call. Check your Gill catalog or Spirirt catalog they both refer to them as tips.
HEY.......... YOU ASKED!!
HEY.......... YOU ASKED!!
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PvaultinGirl
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oh ok. i understand now. but i find that word to be funny and i don't normally call it that. lol. i just call it "the tip of the pole" or "the end" or something. i really am interested in what everyone thinks. i could tell you why but i want to see what other people think first before i say anything about my oppinion. 
POLE VAULTING....Fear is NOT and option!
I think Kris did a great job outlining the benefits and drawbacks associated with sliding or pushing the pole. I can only add a few minor details.
the surface i found most difficult to "push" was the black roll out rubber. for some reason it generates the most friction. I haven't tried pushing on conveyer blet yet but would assume that it too would be a high friction surface, unless dirty. again, kris would know about this as his runway is conveyer. the best surfaces i have experimented with are new mondo and new rubber tracks (granual surfaces). basicly, the least amount of plug surface area touching the track, the better.
another drawback to the push, that Kris omited (maybe because it only applies to a very small percentage of pole vaulters), is the difficulty the tip has dropping to the bottom of the box before it contacts the back of the box. This is normally not a problem with most pole vaulters. But for vaulters that are running between 9 and 10 meters per second into the box, you can imagine the amount of inertia the tip imust have in the horizontal plane. that's some speed gravity has to overcome! however, i have disocvered some little tricks to negotiate the plug into the box.
If i had it to do all over, my entire career, i would elect to push the pole. but seeing how I'm old and repetitions have set my neuromuscler patterns in stone, i just can't afford to mess with it as much as i would like. but who knows what the future has in store?
Tito
the surface i found most difficult to "push" was the black roll out rubber. for some reason it generates the most friction. I haven't tried pushing on conveyer blet yet but would assume that it too would be a high friction surface, unless dirty. again, kris would know about this as his runway is conveyer. the best surfaces i have experimented with are new mondo and new rubber tracks (granual surfaces). basicly, the least amount of plug surface area touching the track, the better.
another drawback to the push, that Kris omited (maybe because it only applies to a very small percentage of pole vaulters), is the difficulty the tip has dropping to the bottom of the box before it contacts the back of the box. This is normally not a problem with most pole vaulters. But for vaulters that are running between 9 and 10 meters per second into the box, you can imagine the amount of inertia the tip imust have in the horizontal plane. that's some speed gravity has to overcome! however, i have disocvered some little tricks to negotiate the plug into the box.
If i had it to do all over, my entire career, i would elect to push the pole. but seeing how I'm old and repetitions have set my neuromuscler patterns in stone, i just can't afford to mess with it as much as i would like. but who knows what the future has in store?
Tito
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PVJunkie
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for those of you who would like to welcome the latest boardmember Tito aka Tye Harvey (got the sp. right and the catalog is in the mail b 4 i left the office 2 nite), who is the reason we are having this conversation. There is far more to the vault than looking as cool as C$ (had to take the jab since he gave me the nickname)!! Dont do somthing new just to be different at the risk of destroying your tech, Tito why dont you fill us in on why you first started doing that.......................push.
Tito why dont you fill us in on why you first started doing that.......................push.
B-man! waz up? this friggin' forum thing is a blast. Amazing to see all the enthusiasm and energy vaulters have toward their sport. it's refreshing. Right on rainbowgirl28 (i hope i got the right person) for firin' it up!
to reply to BC's request, I began experimenting with the push back in my university days at U of Minnesota. on the way to outdoor big tens my jr. year our team van crashed into another car in an intersection and my right wrist was compleatly demolished. it took a year of serious rehab to get to a point where i could even think about hanging onto a pole. as i started to try to pole vaulting again, the flexability in my wrist was so poor i couldn't carry a pole. so in order to be able to jump at all, i had to push the pole down the runway. as i started learning more about it and playing with it, i realized it had potential. i did some number comarisons with the traditional carry and found some incouraging results. but as i got in better shape and the season started i went back to carring the pole traditionally. then a coupple of years ago when i was living up in Arkansas i had a dream about it. i approached Earl with the idea and his response was that i opened a can of worms and now i had to eat them. so i played with it for about 1/2 the indoor season, starting in Reno, then went to europe where i jumped in 3 meets pushing the pole and recieved some fun feedback...even convinced a few coaches enough that they had some of their athletes trying it out. but at one of the meets where i started pushing, the runway was sloping to the left, so as i pushed the pole along it had a tendancy to drift left on me. at that meet i picked up the pole for the remainder of the comp. and ended up jumping really well, and that was the last of the push. another benifit i forgot to mention in the last post was that i felt it allowed me to maintain perfact postural postioning through the aproach and take-off. i was able to practice with this good posture long enough that when i did finally pick up the pole, the good positioning felt natural and more efficient then my old bad habbits and was locked in.
so there it is BC. in detail (probably more detail then most are interested in) how it all started.
I'm outta here,
tito
B-man! waz up? this friggin' forum thing is a blast. Amazing to see all the enthusiasm and energy vaulters have toward their sport. it's refreshing. Right on rainbowgirl28 (i hope i got the right person) for firin' it up!
to reply to BC's request, I began experimenting with the push back in my university days at U of Minnesota. on the way to outdoor big tens my jr. year our team van crashed into another car in an intersection and my right wrist was compleatly demolished. it took a year of serious rehab to get to a point where i could even think about hanging onto a pole. as i started to try to pole vaulting again, the flexability in my wrist was so poor i couldn't carry a pole. so in order to be able to jump at all, i had to push the pole down the runway. as i started learning more about it and playing with it, i realized it had potential. i did some number comarisons with the traditional carry and found some incouraging results. but as i got in better shape and the season started i went back to carring the pole traditionally. then a coupple of years ago when i was living up in Arkansas i had a dream about it. i approached Earl with the idea and his response was that i opened a can of worms and now i had to eat them. so i played with it for about 1/2 the indoor season, starting in Reno, then went to europe where i jumped in 3 meets pushing the pole and recieved some fun feedback...even convinced a few coaches enough that they had some of their athletes trying it out. but at one of the meets where i started pushing, the runway was sloping to the left, so as i pushed the pole along it had a tendancy to drift left on me. at that meet i picked up the pole for the remainder of the comp. and ended up jumping really well, and that was the last of the push. another benifit i forgot to mention in the last post was that i felt it allowed me to maintain perfact postural postioning through the aproach and take-off. i was able to practice with this good posture long enough that when i did finally pick up the pole, the good positioning felt natural and more efficient then my old bad habbits and was locked in.
so there it is BC. in detail (probably more detail then most are interested in) how it all started.
I'm outta here,
tito
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PvaultinGirl
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this is great feedback! i really am enjoying listening to everyones thoughts on the matter. here's why i have been asking though. last year i started vaulting "normally" , you know, carrying the pole not pushing it down the runway. in order to teach me how to vault however at first my coach had me push the pole so that i could work on other aspects of my vault. i did fine carrying the pole until i started to get higher and then i ran into some uh...planting problems you might say. i got scared and decided to resort back to pushing the pole. I ended up reaching heights i never thought that i would get and i never had any problems w/ my plant so i gained more confidence in my vault and i have consistency now. the problem w/ this is really not the facilities around here, it's my coach, meet officials, and other coaches. they have never seen this type of vault used before and so whever i go to meets, i hear a lot of " Young lady! you could get much higher if you didn't push that pole" or " That's not the correct way to vault!!!". my must coach thinks that i have the worst form ever and he never watches me vault. i think it's because he's embarassed of me because esp. during meets he stays as far away from pole vault as possible and ignores me. 
it makes me feel bad esp. since every time i do really well, he never watches. i ended up placing in the top 7 at states last year as a freshman and i went to camp this summer just to try and re learn how to carry the pole correctly. now that indoor has started again i have no way to practice because of the new regulations on mat sizes and i want to carry the pole again. any help or suggestions would be awsome! thanks for reading this loong thing.
it makes me feel bad esp. since every time i do really well, he never watches. i ended up placing in the top 7 at states last year as a freshman and i went to camp this summer just to try and re learn how to carry the pole correctly. now that indoor has started again i have no way to practice because of the new regulations on mat sizes and i want to carry the pole again. any help or suggestions would be awsome! thanks for reading this loong thing. POLE VAULTING....Fear is NOT and option!
PvaultinGirl,
sound like you're between a rock and hard place. it's cool you jumped high pushing but if your coach is dissaproving and not watching you vault, you should definately follow his advice and pick up the pole. it's not only difficult to jump with out a pair of eyes watching steps etc., but it can be dangerous. about the pit thing....? ask PVJunkie about that one.
sound like you're between a rock and hard place. it's cool you jumped high pushing but if your coach is dissaproving and not watching you vault, you should definately follow his advice and pick up the pole. it's not only difficult to jump with out a pair of eyes watching steps etc., but it can be dangerous. about the pit thing....? ask PVJunkie about that one.
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