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who do you think was a greater technician?

That's a real toughy. In short, Tarasov kept his trail leg straighter throughout the vault, but Bubka's aggression just defeats all...'nough said haha. -6P

ya i was sorta thinking the same thing. the thing i like about tarasov though is how high his pole bend is but that might merely be because he has such a high reach and takeoff angle

Well...I think...the run-up and take-off from Bubka is definitely better! Look at the first steps of Tarasov => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vc99zgAKtE (start at 5:20).
See Bubka here => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vc99zgAKtE. He runs with very high knee's, reactive groundcontact (bouncy running), high hips, shoulders back and a steady increase of the frequency.
And I wonder if the straight knee is so much better perse. He has a slower inversion than Bubka. With a slightly bend knee (second phase of the inversion after passing the chord), he could have inverted faster en have a higher pushoff. Especially when you're as tall as Tarassov and you have more mass at the far end of the lever.

How do you say this in English...IMHO?

ya bubka had a far more dominate run over tarasov i was more of talking about in terms of on the pole....

TARASOV!-The better technical jump

However the only thing that matters is who jumped higher when determining who's better.

--Kasey

kcvault wrote:TARASOV!-The better technical jump

However the only thing that matters is who jumped higher when determining who's better.

Not really. You can train technique easier than you can train speed. So if Tarasov had better technique (I don't know this, but if you say so) and Bubka had better speed, then if YOU want to jump as high as possible, you would be better off emulating Tarasov's technique. All the training in the world won't turn you into a world-class sprinter ... you'll hit close to your top end fairly early in your career ... but IMHO, technique can be drilled into you ... you can ALWAYS get better at it.

Kirk

Bubka of course. With more than 40 jumps over 6m and a max electronically measured clearance of 6.39m, Tarasov has no chance. I love it when people explain dominance by shear strength and power. Bubka came very close to the ideal technique. Measurements of the technique are not how straight the take of leg is or how elegantly the vaulter looks on the runway. It measures by the ability to achieve maximum speed at take off, stiffness of the pole, grip height and the ability to fly over that grip. The combination = result = technique. There are many athletes that can squat/bench press/sprint better than Bubka. He was able to achieve the greatest combination of technique/mental toughness/physical strength than anyone else. Don’t forget that the ability to jump highest under stress of big meets is also a measure of technique.
Bubka's consistency with average yearly results about 20cm over Tarasov's show how sold his technique was. To give credit to Tarasov, Bubka is the only one to better him.

Kholev wrote:Bubka of course. With more than 40 jumps over 6m and a max electronically measured clearance of 6.39m, Tarasov has no chance. ...

The legend (fable) continues!

Are you referring to the measurements taken by the Japanese biomechanics, who estimated a hip-height of 6.40 on "that jump"?

I don't know where you get PRECISELY 6.39 from, since they said "6.40". And I love it when you say that its "electronically measured" ... as if that gives more credibility to the alleged 6.39 "measurement". If it was truly "electronically measured", it would have been as "hands-off" as an electronically timed race. Clearly, that's not the case.

Can you provide more details on exactly who said 6.39, and what his proof is?

The way I see it, Bubka MIGHT have had something in the neighborhood of 6.40 on that jump, but he would have come down on the bar ... since his hip height wasn't EXACTLY above the bar. Or do you agree that he would ALSO have had to set his standards somewhere else other than where they were ON THAT JUMP?

And then if the placement of the standards was optimized, are you CERTAIN that he wouldn't have hit the bar off ON HIS WAY UP!

Lastly, I sorta buy your argument ... but not based on the alleged 6.39. What's wrong with just saying his OFFICIAL 6.15 was significantly higher than Tarasov's OFFICIAL 6.05 PR? That's still 10 cm higher! Impressive ... without having to talk about "unofficial hip-height", allegedly measured "electronically" (even tho he didn't actually clear a BAR set at 6.39).

Don't take my rant personally. I just think comparisons should be made with OFFICIAL JUMPS. Maybe Tarasov had some good practice jumps over 6.15 too ... but didn't get the publicity that Bubka's astrounding "clearance" got ... (HUGE quotes around CLEARANCE) ... should we be counting those?

Kirk

KirkB, I agree with your argument. I have no idea how much above the bar Tarasov was at his best jumps. You are right; comparisons should be made based on official results to avoid gray area debates. Fortunately our sport unlike figure skating has very clear and obvious definition of a successful attempt. Otherwise we can get into arguments of validity of jumps where bar stayed despite vaulter landing on it (I think Philip Collet had few of those)

Bubka is still a better jumper based on a combination of:
- Pole stiffness
- Grip height
- Max push over the grip
- Average of top 10-20 best marks
- Number of major championships won, etc.

My main point is that the technique is not just an ability to jump really high once or twice, but also a consistency of performance over the years tested by injuries, competition pressures and other factors. Both Tarasov and Bubka are great athletes and technicians, but Bubka is better.

Kholev wrote: ... technique is not just an ability to jump really high once or twice, but also a consistency of performance over the years tested by injuries, competition pressures and other factors. Both Tarasov and Bubka are great athletes and technicians, but Bubka is better.

All excellent points!

Kirk

but didnt tarasov stop jumping after he won meets? he rarely ever went for a pr, he just did what it took to win the meet