swing up drill

[starkey480]

I was attempting to look like bubka in that video kyle ellis posted up of bubkas swing up. comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6oUmBnbwo0

[KYLE ELLIS]

Looking good man!! very nice swing

Now for my critique, you takeoff under and consequently get whipped on your back pretty early in the vault. This will prevent you from gripping extremely high like Bubka is... If you watch that video you can see that he exagerates the free takeoff, he jumps very high off the ground before the pole hits the box. His chest stays over his hips until all of the pressure hits his top hand. Swing looks great, the takeoff needs a little work. Not bad overall

[starkey480]

oh ya i see that now!! i will try and exagerate the free takeoff next time. The thing that stood out to me the most in bubkas was how he got his feet past vertical too and i really like doing that it helps.

[altius]

Typical problems with folk doing the dreaded rock back drill. You dont completely finish the take off -check where your left foot is pointing immediately you leave the ground and look at whether the left leg is fully extended - finally check the separation between the front - right - shin and the left thigh - not good. Why because - the emphasis on getting upside down usually kills those aspects of technique with young vaulters. Good vaulters can do the whole thing correctly -but in my opinion dont need to bother with the drill. So really no body should do it! Now that should stir things up - it has all been a bit flat lately.

[KYLE ELLIS]

Altius would you agree that exagerating the free takeoff/ pre jump takeoff would naturally make the vaulter finish the take off better. And you say nobody should do this drill that Bubka himself did? Why do you say that?

[Andy_C]

I'm not Altius but I'd like to throw in my opinion:

First and foremost, to me it's never just about *the drill*. I find that a lot of coaches (and not just pole vault coaches) place so much of an emphasis on individual drills that people begin to lose sight of a much bigger picture. As a result, a lot of the "coaching" that comes through is just a bunch of hints and tips as opposed to a systematic plan for development.

It's important to know what is the drill, how to do it properly and why we do the drill - these topics are always thoroughly discussed here on PVP.

However, I do see a big lack of discussion on:
how the drill should be implemented to the greatest benefit - how does it fit in to the general training plan
when it is most appropriate for the athlete in their developmental stage
how will the drill affect the athletes performance of other elements of the vault (very important for starkey's case)
reflection on the progress and results of the drill performance
reflection on the progress and results of the drill's practice on the performance of the whole vault
... that's just off the top of my head, there's more.

Understandably, these topics will require a lot more communication and writing pages and pages of stuff on a forum will make it more difficult. It's just not natural to carry out that long term plan for development via message board posts. But if you ask me, that's what's missing - the bigger picture.

Looking at Starkey's case with the bigger picture, his take-off leg pretty much validates Altius' point; The rock-back drill can put you in danger of having a lazy take off. Until Altius brought it up, the whole idea of how the rockback drill affects OTHER elements of the vault (ie. the take off) wasn't even touched.

And for the case with Bubka, he did the swing back drill... but he also did hundreds and hundreds of take off drill reps each week so he was not in danger of getting lazy on the take off. That brings up the whole point of how does the individual drill fit into the general training plan. I know Bubka did 200+ reps of 2 step, stiff pole, high grip take offs almost every week, but I have my doubts that starkey is doing the same. Additionally, Bubka would probably do the swing back with a challenging grip - not too high to make it dangerous but high enough to make him have to take off. In any case it's never *just* about the drill.

I can remember another video thread by starkey a little while ago. He's doing some pretty good things. But I see the exact same problem here in this drill and it's the take off. You can see very clearly that he's not finishing the take off in the actual jump as well as the drill. To me this ties into the whole needing to reflect on the results of the drill. In starkey's case, this drill is hurting him in the fact that it's "helping" him to be lazy on the take off. He practices it in the drill and it shows in the full vault. A decision from the bigger picture has to be made; modify the drill, add more take off drills into his overall training plan or even axe the drill completely (and any other drills that's giving him this take off). It's not my decision to make and I really shouldn't be making the decision because I don't know Starkey personally and I can't see his bigger picture! But I really think that there needs to be a push for the desired result - a better take off.

-Andrew

P.S. Starkey, not picking on you mate, just need to prove a point. Keep up the good work but fix your take off! I stand by my comments on the other thread - long jump take off drills and I would like to add short run, stiff pole take off drills with a "challenging" grip! I know that ends up being just another "short term tip" but think of it as a change of perspective, a lazy take off is a problem that must be fixed.

[altius]

Starkey old son -take a look at Scott Roths jump and note the way he finished the take off - sets up a big separation and then uses that to accelerate the left leg swing. Pity he tucks - I believe he had enough energy in the system to stay long right through to cover the pole.

[starkey480]

alright i will work on that takeoff. i dont really do swing up drills very often... i do them more as a warm up before i jump.

[altius]

Make sure you do take a look at Roth's jump - it will help you understand the point I am making. Oh and dont forget that advice of this kind would cost you a hundred bucks if you were a golfer!

[starkey480]

haha good thing my golf swing looks like im hitting a baseball

[starkey480]

oh and i did take a look at roths jump. It was an awesome jump. i See what you mean about his takeoff. I have practice in about 5 minutes so i will work on it and maybe get some video up!!!!