take-off dutch athletes

[Run2Niels]

Hi,

I made this video at the national championships in the Netherlands. http://www.vimeo.com/5909103

1. Wout van Wengerden 5.42meter
2. Christian Tamminga 5.27meter
3. Eelco Sintnicolaas 5.22meter
3. Robbert-Jan Jansen 5.22meter
5. Cyriel Verberne 5.02meter
6. Jorn Bakker 4.92meter
7. Nils Mulder 4.82meter
8. Eugene Martineau 4.72meter
9. Joël de Water 4.52meter
Guest: Jason Wurster 5.22meter

It's not a very high level, because Laurens Looije and Rens Blom retired and Christian Tamminga is not on his former level anymore (though it's great for Chris he can still compete!).
I was wondering what you guys are thinking about the take-off of these athletes (I don't think it's very good). I wanted to use this video for educational purposes.

[vault3rb0y]

Christian and Jason's take off's were the best in my opinion. Some of the guys werent totally free but kept their hips back at least. I was suprised at how poor some of their form was and that they still cleared 5.22. Christian looks so solid until he breaks his knees and his hips slow down, but he's still the most technically solid jumper in the group. If you use this for education i would point out the good in Christian and Jason and have athletes compare that to other guys.

[Pogo Stick]

Christian and Jason's take off's were the best in my opinion. Some of the guys werent totally free but kept their hips back at least. I was suprised at how poor some of their form was and that they still cleared 5.22. Christian looks so solid until he breaks his knees and his hips slow down, but he's still the most technically solid jumper in the group. If you use this for education i would point out the good in Christian and Jason and have athletes compare that to other guys.

Just small clarification: Jason is Canadian, not Dutch. This is the first time I saw him on video and his jump looks very solid.

[Run2Niels]

I agree that the take-off of Jason Wurster and Christian Tamminga are the best. Not entirely free, but close to free. Both have a vertical impulse without losing speed. I expect Jason to have a Canadian or American coach and Christian Tamminga used to be coached by a Russian coach.

[decanuck]

Wonderful video Niels--great shooting and editing. Thanks for sharing.

Did anyone else think about FedEx when the second song came on? Haha

I agree that the take-off of Jason Wurster and Christian Tamminga are the best. Not entirely free, but close to free. Both have a vertical impulse without losing speed. I expect Jason to have a Canadian or American coach and Christian Tamminga used to be coached by a Russian coach.

Jason can correct me if I'm wrong (he's a PVP member) but I do believe his coach is also originally Russian.

[kcvault]

There were a lot of bad take offs in the beginning. It looks to me like almost all of them were mostly caused from over striding, As a result most of the vaulters are cought leaning back at takeoff, putting them in a bad position to swing and making it impossible to jump up will at takeoff. Still they all seem to be strong and hold there bodies behind the pole fairly well even though you can see there hips working against them.

[altius]

Would August be a good time for that clinic???????????

[Run2Niels]

August sounds great! But it's still ten months away...
Just tell what I need to arrange to get you here! e-mail is nielsalofsen at gmail.com

[KirkB]

... they all seem to be strong and hold there bodies behind the pole fairly well even though you can see there hips working against them.

You talk about "holding their bodies behind the pole fairly well" as if this is a GOOD thing. Wouldn't it be BETTER to let their natural swinging action determine the location of their hips in relation to the pole? Can you elaborate on how you think their "hips are working against them"?

This is ... of course ... based on the expectation that they DON'T overstride and they DON'T take off under.

Kirk

[joebro391]

Kirk, I have a feeling that you're assuming he's saying "blocking out" in a bunch more words. Most people know that if you block out, you can't swing, and stay behind the pole (in a very non-beneficial way). You and I are in agreement about that; however, I don't think that kcvault is talking about blocking out. I think he may be referring to NOT letting the bottom arm collapse, and going straight to their back. They attempt to stay behind the pole (go elastic), and obtain a good whip-swing, but because they continuously take off under, they can't swing. I THINK that's that kcvault was talking about. If i'm mistaken, let us know k. -6P

[kcvault]

Sorry bad wording. What I mean is even though there hips are out of position at take off they fight to hold them back by doing this they allow themselves to continue to swing and continue to roll the pole (The hips are what should never come in front of the pole during the swing phase). When I say there hips are working against them I mean you can see that the hips want to come in front of the pole, however these vaulters are strong enough to prevent that from happening. I'm not saying this is at all good, just saying they get away with it because there strong. As a result of there bad takeoff the poles bend is less dynamic causing it to bend down to the vaulter instead of the bend rising. As a result of this they get less blow off the top of the pole, have less leeway with the standard placement, Have a more difficult time getting inverted, and also have the obvious effect of having to hold lower on a smaller pole. From a coaching stand point I would say they need to work on slide box, focusing on moving there step up a little and jumping from out by getting there feet down (Also How many lefts out they start there pole drop would need to be established to ensure consistency.)

[KirkB]

KC, I think both you and 6P identified this correctly. They're under so they "think they must" recover by doing weird things with their bottom arm to keep from passing the chord too early. I put "think they must" in quotes, becuz I don't think they should even bother trying to salvage a bad vault when they're under. It just sets you up for bad habits. And if you're under ALL THE TIME, then FIX THAT!

Such a shame that some vaulters work so hard on how to recover from a bad takeoff ... instead of getting a free takeoff where your hips are in a much better position to "go elastic" and whip thru the chord.

It would be so much easier to just fix the takeoff problem!

This may be the wrong thread to talk about it, but I don't think the phrase "not letting the bottom arm collapse" should be an objective of a vault. More specifically, the focus should be on "going elastic" (as you say) so that your chest is forwards and your hips are back. In that FORWARD LEANING position ... that you pass thru during and shortly after takeoff ... it doesn't matter whether your bottom arm collapses or not ... the pole is going to bend PROPERLY ... from the impact of the TOP arm, thru the pole, to the box ... BEFORE (or JUST AS) the bottom arm SEEMS LIKE it's going to collapse.

My advice to all the vaulters in this vid is to focus more on the takeoff to get the proper forwards-leaning body angle ... and then focus on getting a good stretch whilst the TOP arm takes the entire impact of the pole hitting the box. Done right, it doesn't matter WHAT the bottom arm is doing ... the pole is going to bend PROPERLY regardless.

In my mind, preventing the bottom arm from collapsing is a knee-jerk (and futile) reaction to a bad plant/takeoff where you're under and you've lost your forwards lean.

Just MHO.

Kirk