Jump Comparison & EXPERIMENTATION (finally 15-foot poles!!)

[joebro391]

well guys, most of you know me, and therefore know my jumping flaws. To me, even when i'm "on" my biggest problem is always the collapsing of my bottom arm. Like the first jump, taken at nationals, most of what i do is pretty decent, (causing me to blow through the biggest pole i've ever been on) however, when i see that jump, the thing that sticks out to me the most, aside from knocking off the bar, is my bottom arm. Sometimes I wonder why i don't pull pieces of fiberglass, out of my forehead, after I jump. So my new coach has been working heavily with me, to correct this problem, among others haha. Because my hip flexors were dead, my swing was horrible, but as I stated, it wasn't my focus, so...yea.

Now, yesterday, where all the new footage was taken, I was suffering from sever delayed-muscle-soreness, from a workout, on thursday. I could barely walk, in the morning, but as i warmed up, I felt a bit better, however, I don't feel I had my usualy 'zip', so I was down, in power. But anyway, here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHgxBDpDcT4

JUMP 1 (nationals): little late, plant, never got my top arm, all the way, up. a bit, under, too. But I have a pretty good drive and one my my best, ever, swings. I get a pretty good inversion, however, as kirk has stated in the past, I flag-out, perhaps from not initiating my pull-turn phase, earlier. I get plenty of height...behind the bar. Oh, where was that 155?

JUMP 2 (new): Some people may argue, but I think that that was my greatest looking take-off, of all time. HOWEVER, after take-off, I broke my trail-leg (no swing, at all), and...rocked back .

NOW, to me, that inversion looks...odd. Like, I come back, and extend, however, I'm not perpendicular to the ground. I'm already flagging out. Was the pole too soft?? I don't know, however, a lot of people also told me that I was letting go of the pole, too early. hmm...

JUMP 3: Okay, so earlier this day, I did something i've never done before, I got on 15-foot poles!! First, a 15' 140, which I crushed. So, without anything in the middle, I went up, to a 15' 150. I was very excited, because I think everyone knows how long I've been trying to make this jump, and I finally got it!!

OKAY, THE JUMP: Very tall take-off. Nice C-position, but then I dropped my drive-knee . I somehow swung, but the jump was already a gonner. I got stuck, in that ugly V-position (but I tend to think that that was just because of a lack of confidense, due to the pole I was on). Crazy hip height (those poles really throw you!!), but i crashed. luckally, due to all the extra padding my coach has, I was fine

JUMP 4: Probably my best jump, of the day. Very nice take-off, maybe 2 inches, under, but I was really trying to focus on an early plant and keeping a strong bottom-arm. I swing a bit better on this jump, however my trail-leg bends, so the swing is not very powerful. Then I get stuck, in the 'V'-position, again, but, like on the last jump, I think that that was simply due to lack of confidense. Crazy hip-height but I came up a bit short. I forget what the standards were at, but I honestly want to say 45cm. I think my...dingdong knocked it off, but whatever, it happens to the best of us hahaha

JUMP 5: Now, on this jump, I finally did what I THINK i wanted, with the bottom arm. To me, this is my all-time, nicest take-off. But right after I started swining my left leg, it bent and died . I kinda just tucked into a ball, like on JUMP 2, however, this one I couldn't stay with. Could the pole have been too soft??? Or did I just not swing to inversion? I don't know, which is why I included it, in this little video.

OKAY, FINAL COMMENTS:
- I was really focusing on the bottom arm, BUT, I really want to make sure that I DON'T START TO BLOCK. That's a big fear of mine. So, considering I'm entering new territory here, I'd love to get as many comments and tips as possible, on these jumps. Thank you, all. -6P

[BethelPV]

I think jump 2 was the takeoff you are looking for! Great pre-stretch and body positioning, and i don't think you want your arms any stiffer than that! Its perfectly fine for your bottom arm to move over your head and back, that allows your chest to drive in and get the pole moving into vertical. Keep working, but if you can hit that kind of takeoff everytime, your on the right track!

[AVC Coach]

I don't think your first jump was truely a blow through. You rowed your hands forward way too much in the middle of the swing and got stuck on top with nowhere to go but out. Your take-off looks pretty good, although your trail leg bends a lot when you swing. I can't see any reason why you can't jump 15+ as soon as you clean up just these few things. Oh, and when you do, that 15150 will be way to small.

[KirkB]

... even when i'm "on" my biggest problem is always the collapsing of my bottom arm.

I don't think so. I think it's your body posture immediately after takeoff. If your steps are always in, you'll always be leaning back instead of forwards. You need to lean in the direction that you're jumping ... up and into the pole.

JUMP 1 (nationals): ... as kirk has stated in the past, I flag-out, perhaps from not initiating my pull-turn phase, earlier. I get plenty of height...behind the bar. Oh, where was that 155?

You didn't appear to be flagging out THAT much (not as much as I thought before). Rather, You're getting good depth into the pit, so you could have shot more straight up without fear of stalling. Why didn't you? It's becuz you were gripping too high! (See the No Coach at Nationals thread for further details.) I do understand why you think you needed a 155 there, but who's to say you wouldn't just flag out with a 155 ... or a 160? IMHO, you need to improve your TECHNIQUE (i.e. learn to shoot more straight up) before you boost your flex or grip.

JUMP 2 (new): ... I think that that was my greatest looking take-off, of all time. HOWEVER, after take-off, I broke my trail-leg (no swing, at all), and...rocked back .

NOW, to me, that inversion looks...odd. Like, I come back, and extend, however, I'm not perpendicular to the ground. I'm already flagging out.

Yes, 6P I think it was a fair takeoff and not bad body posture, but ...

Grip is too wide. Flagging out. Under. Body posture in Frames 3-4 is actually quite nice (despite being under). You're not resisting with the bottom arm (a good thing), and your chest gets thru fairly well. There was a hesitation in Frame 5 that was bad. In frames 6-9, your trail leg is bent when it should be straight. (Highbar drills!) Frame 10 is the end of your Phase 2 - the Whip position ... aka the end of your downswing and the start of your upswing. Unfortunately, at this point you've already "lost" the vault, due to your hesitation in Frame 5 and your bent trail leg in Frames 6-10. In Phase 3, you're just tucking the best you can, but the pole has gotten ahead of you, so there's not much point in analyzing this vault any further.

Was the pole too soft?? ...

No. You landed in the middle of the PLZ (Preferred Landing Zone). That's perfect. Now you need to work on shooting more vertically ... by tracing that SYMPTOM back to what's causing it in the bottom half of your vault ... which is almost always under ... but I think is also not jumping up and into the pole enough.

a lot of people also told me that I was letting go of the pole, too early. hmm...

Don't worry about the top half of the vault til you fix the bottom half!

JUMP 3: ... I got on 15-foot poles!! First, a 15' 140, which I crushed. So ... I went up, to a 15' 150. I was very excited, because I think everyone knows how long I've been trying to make this jump, and I finally got it!!

I don't understand why you're so anxious to get onto 15-0 poles. You're over-gripping at 13-6 and 13-9 IMO. Until you've capped a 14-7, why worry about a 15-0? No harm in experimenting, I guess, but really, you should make every practice vault count towards a technical improvement. You seem to be stressing too much over the pole size and grip (over-gripping), and you're not stressing enough over your technical flaws.

Fix technical flaws FIRST ... and raise your grip and flex LATER ... ALWAYS in that order!

I didn't look too closely at this jump, as you say it was quite off, but I did notice your weird form just before your pole release. You shifted your bottom hand up to just below your top hand, re-gripped, and tried to somehow recover your vault by doing that. I wouldn't get too tricky here. Instead of fooling around like that, if you've got a bad jump going, just bail and then forget about it. It's not worth it to try to complete every bad vault. Just move on! Don't even try to anaylze it. Get it out of your mind and just move on!

JUMP 4: Probably my best jump, of the day. Very nice take-off, maybe 2 inches, under, but I was really trying to focus on an early plant and keeping a strong bottom-arm. I swing a bit better on this jump, however my trail-leg bends, so the swing is not very powerful. Then I get stuck, in the 'V'-position, again, ... Crazy hip-height but I came up a bit short.

I'm taking Frame 0 as the one where your lead knee is just a bit ahead of your trail leg knee (it's almost "thighs together"). In Frame 0, your lead leg ankle is very, very close to your butt. That's weird! Why are you bringing it up so close? I don't know if it's by intent or not, but it just strikes me as abnormal for it to come up so high. You don't seem to do that in your approach.

You do get a fairly nice C (Frame 3) on this jump, but you're still leaning back too much. So in Frame 4 your backwards lean gets worse, and by the time you hit your Whip (Frame 8), your trail leg is bent and you still don't have the leg speed or momentum to rotate into an inverted position. After that, I count 8-9 frames where you're in the "flat-back" position (the dreaded V!). This is bad ... very bad. This is not Petrov ... it's tuck and shoot. I know this isn't what you want to do.

I can't really see this myself, but could it be that you're "keeping a strong bottom-arm" and that's what's killing your swing? I don't know ... but you SAY you're doing this ... so that's probably it. Again, I can't see this in the vid ... I'm only going by what you say.

You talk about "crazy hip-height" ... which to me is still focussing on big pole and high grip ... which is the wrong focus. CRAZY HIP HEIGHT DOESN'T HELP UNLESS YOU HAVE GOOD TECHNIQUE ... AND CLEAR THE BAR! ... ESPECIALLY GOOD TECHNIQUE (clearing the bar will come later ... don't worry).

JUMP 5: Now, on this jump, I finally did what I THINK i wanted, with the bottom arm. To me, this is my all-time, nicest take-off. But right after I started swinging my left leg, it bent and died . I kinda just tucked into a ball, like on JUMP 2, however, this one I couldn't stay with. Could the pole have been too soft??? Or did I just not swing to inversion?

It's rather obvious to me that your pressing with the bottom arm killed your swing. On this one, I can see it ... even if you hadn't said anything about it. Focus more on your takeoff, body posture, and SWING. Don't worry so much about your bottom arm.

Nice front somi, but I think you're in the wrong sport on that one!

OKAY, FINAL COMMENTS:
- I was really focusing on the bottom arm, BUT, I really want to make sure that I DON'T START TO BLOCK. That's a big fear of mine. So, considering I'm entering new territory here ...

6P, it sound to me like you've decided to stick with big poles, high grips, and bottom-arm pressing. That's not friendly territory to be in!

I think that's a mistake until you fix the root cause of flagging out. You need to shoot STRAIGHT UP!

Kirk

[KirkB]

6P, on JJ's PV Progression Table, here's where your 14-0 160, 14-6 150, and 15-0 150 poles are ...

37 13' 180 13'6 170 14' 160 14'6 150 15' 140 15'6 130
38 13' 185 13'6 175 14' 165 14'6 155 15' 145 15'6 135
39 13' 190 13'6 180 14' 170 14'6 160 15' 150 15'6 140

So the 14-0 160 is no heavier or lighter than your NINs pole. Maybe the flexes make them slightly different.

And the 15-0 150 is TWO steps up from them.

Is there not a 14-0 165 available for you to use? It seems to me that that one would fit your progression the best ... instead of the 15-0 150.

If you were BUYING a pole (and didn't want to grow out of it too quickly), maybe a 14-6 155?

I just don't think you're ready for 15-0 poles yet. You need to keep your grip down while you work on your technique!

And most importantly ... you need to have the self-confidence ... on EVERY jump ... that you'll land in the middle of the PLZ.

Without that confidence, you will continue to do what we saw in your last practice: Stalling out and bailing ... wasting valuable time and energy that could otherwise be put to better use ... to IMPROVE YOUR TECHNIQUE!

WITH that confidence, you will swing with a longer trail leg, invert back FURTHER (to vertical), and shoot more STRAIGHT UP! Why? Because you won't second guess yourself and hesitate about whether or not you're going to make the pit.

Swinging with a fully extended trail leg is a MUST. Don't compromise that for the sake of raising your grip or flex! First things first!

Kirk