PoleVaultPower.com

Hey friends, my indoor season has ended, and I would like to get some feedback on my vaulting. This season, I've focused a lot on my run and my plant/takeoff, and these two aspects are looking a lot better (in my opinion). However, my p.r. still remains at 13' (which I first cleared almost 2 years ago), despite these improvements. Now, part of the reason for this delay in PRing is because I broke my ankle last year during indoor track, and spent outdoor track trying to get back. I had an annoying ankle injury this season on my ankle as well that prevented me from using a longer run until now, but thankfully this injury is going away.

Now I mentioned that my plant/ takeoff have been the focul point of my vaulting practices this season, and they're looking better. I'm finally taking my last 3 strides without leaning back, and I'm beginning to get my last step down right under me. Also, my plant is now consistently better and I no longer get fiberglassed in the face.

So, now what should I do next? Why is my PR still at 13', which I cleared almost 2 years ago while overstriding the last step, leaning back at takeoff, getting fiber glassed at takeoff, using a smaller pole, and using only 5 lefts? Also, this was done with no weight training, no plyometrics, no midmark, and no inversion. I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining or anything, but I'm a little baffled by how I could improve so many things except my P.R. haha.

Also, what aspect of the vault should I focus on now? I remember from the last thread, PP and Kirk mentioned getting on a high bar and doing hip circles, but unfortunately that is simply impossible right now. I don't have access to a high bar or gymnastics rings, and as for now, I can't do much about it. Maybe outdoor season, we'll be able to get one, but for now what ELSE can I do? What should I focus on? How should I improve? (specific things please)

Thank you ALL very much!

Vaults from the last meet of 2009 season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3p30Yo2 ... annel_page


Vaults from 2 years ago...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8313141683
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3161253292

EDIT*:
I am 5' 8.5", 142 lbs, Freshman at Haverford College
Also, I think the bar height is 11' 6", and I did end up raising my grip to about 13' 1" later on (and started to blow through the pole)

sooch90 wrote: PP and Kirk mentioned getting on a high bar and doing hip circles, but unfortunately that is simply impossible right now. I don't have access to a high bar or gymnastics rings, and as for now, I can't do much about it.

I haven't watched your vids yet ... no time today ... but nothing's IMPOSSIBLE ... never say never ... HIGHBARS ARE EVERYWHERE!!!

http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16608

Kirk

First of all, tell your friends that they're hilarious, but dead wrong about 'getting off the mat'.

There's not a whole lot you can do to work on your swing/inversion... I guess a rope would suffice for now. You'll never be able to get any real push-off with the 'double flick' (new term I'll be using from now on to describe this) that you do. If you can't work on your swing/inversion, then you'll really struggle to get off this technical plateau (especially with no strength training whatsoever!)...

If you want something to help with your plant more, keep in mind that the bottom hand should never move down during the plant and should not move forward at all until the top hand is coming up. Check out the Petrov speech video to see what I mean. (Have you seen it yet KB!?)

The ingredients for a much higher vault are there (run, plant, takeoff). I think two things are happening after you leave the ground: 1) your left elbow is low and is pushing the pole forward, not up, and 2) your left arm begins pulling on the pole too early--it should only start pulling when your hips are above your shoulders and you're extending up along the pole (until then your left elbow should be extending into the pole).

It is unfortunate that you don't have access to a high bar because I think that freehips and giants on a high bar would be the quickest way to learn this. For now, focus on continuing the plant motion up and through the pole, straight over your head, and swinging long. Push up with your hands as you swing down with your left leg. Extend the left elbow without blocking with the shoulders. See Dave Butler for more:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0052593028

I think one major reason you are not seeing an increase in your PR is your pole selection. I think you would see a much greater benefit jumping on a 14' 155- 14' 160 rather than a 15' 140. Especially if you weigh 142 pounds. Your technique is easily good enough for a 14' jump.

I finally downloaded the Firefox Download Video Helper, and it's VERY nice to be able to step thru youtube vids frame by frame!

Sooch, your 13' vault looks like a 13' vault!

Since I consider myself a takeoff/swing/extension specialist, my advice is confined to those 3 vault parts ... not that your run or plant are perfect.

When you jump, your top hand seems to go "straight back" above your head, rather than "up and back". In other words, there's leakage there. You need to PRESS on the pole when it hits the box. This will keep you taller, and will give you more leverage as the pole rotates to vertical. At the same time, there will be less leakage. Work on that!

Where and how, you ask? Well ... on a highbar!

Seriously, you've got to get in the habit of hanging by your top arm, and you need to strengthen your arm muscles so that you can PRESS while the pole hits ... confidently. Until you get the strength to do this (acquired on the xxxxbar, rings, rope ...) your body will continue to shrug your shoulder (yes, your body will do that to you out of self-preservation, even if you don't want it to - the only way to fix this is to make your arm/shoulder stronger), reduce the length of your top arm, and leak away precious energy.

Next up is your trail leg. You know that you're a bit under, but I guess that's not all that unusual for a 13' vaulter. Try to fix that, but even without fixing it, you can still swing your trail leg. Don't just let it swing passively from the momentum of your run. Swing it FASTER than that!

Where and how, you ask? Well ... you guessed it ...

OK, you get the idea.

If you NEED a highbar, and you LOOK for one, you'll find it. If you DON'T look, you won't find it. Either way, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

OK, I'm off my pulpit now.

Good luck!

Kirk

I know you've explained before, but remind me (and everyone else) what you mean by the word 'press'... please?

powerplant42 wrote:I know you've explained before, but remind me (and everyone else) what you mean by the word 'press'... please?

Hey PP, you know that little button in the top right corner of this page, that says "Search" ...

Naw, I'm not gonna give you a taste of your own medicine ... I'm gonna spell it out for you ... politely ... ha! ha!

When I say PRESS, what I really mean is "PRESS and SQUEEZE". It's what you focus on doing with your top hand at the end of your plant.

I used to call this "PUSH and SQUEEZE", but there's a bit of a naming collision with what most people think you mean when you say PUSH with your hand ... especially if they think you're talking about your bottom hand. So to avoid that, my new term for this - from this day forward - is "PRESS and SQUEEZE".

This is what you do on the highbar and rings. Well, OK, you're already HANGING on the apparatus, so you don't really need to PRESS harder to stretch your arms out. But you do need to SQUEEZE, else you'll lose your grip!

But in PV, since you're not HANGING from the pole (yet) at the end of your plant, you need to assume that body posture by PRESSING and SQUEEZING.

PRESSING to get the highest plant you possibly can, and SQUEEZING so that you don't lose your grip!

These are cue words that you say to yourself when you're preparing for your next jump. Or maybe even DURING your plant (if that's your focus on a particular practice vault).

The more pre-stretch of your top arm in your plant, the less LEAKAGE when the pole hits the box.

Since SQUEEZE is a less common word than PRESS or PUSH, just search for "squeeze kirk", and you'll find lots of threads where I explain this concept.

I should also mention something about the safety issue in fully stretching your top arm on takeoff. This has been discussed in some of the threads that you'll find. Some pundits have suggested that you'll pull your arm out of its socket if you do this ...

I do agree that if you're reckless about it, this could happen. However, I'm expecting that you'll work your way up to this technique after months and months ... even years ... of gymnastic training, where you not only improve your shoulder strength, but you also get a feel for the amount of strain you can put onto your shoulders without tearing them.

Also, self-preservation is a powerful thing, and as long as you don't suddently one day decide to "PRESS and SQUEEZE" by going full tilt on a pole that's ridiculously heavy for you, you're not going to tear your shoulder.

Others may counter this point, but in my experience, I've never heard anyone hurt their shoulder by planting too high. On the contrary, it gives you a smoother plant, which in turn is less strain on your top shoulder.

I should clarify that I did augment my gymnastic training with weight lifting in college (not in HS - except for just a few weeks of expirementation in Jr. High), so I did have some bulk in my shoulder area (lats, pecs) that helped strengthen them. However, I think that my gymnastic training alone would have been sufficient for this.

In summary, I do NOT expect Sooch to just stretch his top arm out on his plant. As I advised him, I expect that he will practice this on the highbar or rings MANY, MANY TIMES first.

The rope is not quite as good for this. On the rope, if you're fully stretching your arm(s), you won't have sufficient hand strength to SQUEEZE. That's because the rope will slip thru your fingers. Not so with highbar or rings. If all you have is a rope, tie a knot in it, and grip your top hand just above the knot.

Kirk

I like the keywords "squeeze kirk". I could've searched for it, but I know that Sooch wouldn't have, so it was more for HIS benefit.

Sort of a side note... Pushing UP with the bottom hand at take-off DOES increase your reach... It sounds crazy/impossible, but it's what Petrov is saying in his speech at Reno (have you seen it yet!!!?), and it really does work. Just like your swingset experiment, you have to TRY it. Try it with a heavierish pole, a really light one won't work (because the tip just comes right up). But of course, you'll have to work into this technique progressively. This is ABSOLUTELY potentially dangerous to the shoulder.

powerplant42 wrote: ... Pushing UP with the bottom hand at take-off DOES increase your reach... It sounds crazy/impossible, but it's what Petrov is saying in his speech at Reno ...

[snipping the irrelevant parts of your post]

I have no comment on pushing up with the bottom hand at takeoff.

Not that I disagree with it, it's just that I haven't tried it!

I will not flaunt a technique that I have no personal experience with. I will only tell you what I know for sure. (OK, I've been know to theorize on occassion, but you know what I mean. If I didn't FEEL it ... or if I can't VISUALIZE it, then I'm probably not going to RECOMMEND it.)

In my experience ... and I'm not proposing that you copy me on this ... I'm just telling you what worked for me ... a LONG TIME AGO ... I timed the dropping of the pole so that it was weightless. Literally. So I focussed on planting with my top arm fully stretched. I have no recollection of anything special that I did with my bottom arm. Just like AFTER takeoff, where I did NOT push with it, I don't believe that I pushed at all with it during the plant. I think it was just there for balance ... and not even much of that ... unless I timed the drop wrong.

Thinking about this now, I can't imagine how I could improve on that by PUSHING up with the bottom arm. I know what Launder means when he refers to PUNCHING the pole up with both hands. I think I did that with only the top hand. I think that's because I was emulating a basketball layup. Whether you're doing a BB layup or a PV jump, I think it's the natural layup motion to propel (PUNCH) the top hand up as you takeoff ... and not do much with the bottom hand ... at least it was for me.

However, please don't think you SHOULDN'T punch up with your bottom hand. Do what Launder and Petrov recommend. I just didn't do that.

Reading this again ...

powerplant42 wrote: Try it with a heavierish pole, a really light one won't work (because the tip just comes right up).

... I don't see how this drops the pole weightlessly. It seems to me that you're applying pressure against the pole, so it's not WEIGHTLESS.

Have you actually TRIED this ... with SUCCESS?

Kirk

hey all, I really appreciate the replies! Sorry for the lack of replies; I just got done my exams last week.

Decanuck, I've been primarily focusing on what you said in your post (and what Dave Butler said in his presentation). Practicing punch up my arms at the plant, and swinging long. I've also experimented a little bit with pushing up as I swing the trail leg down (as Dave Butler described), but I don't really have an conclusive results.

Kirk, could you elaborate what you mean by "hanging by my top arm" and not "shrugging the shoulders"? How does this look like?

I've been looking for a high bar, and the only one I can think of is possible some monkey bars at a play ground near my campus? The best I could do is go on a Saturday (week days are pretty tight, timewise). However, what would I do on some monkey bars? I think I need some direction on what a COMPLETE beginner on the gymnastics high bar should do on some monkey bars?


All right, here are some recent practices from 4 lefts. Tell me what you guys think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0WF4ULrjYo

Thanks a ton!

I would try scooting your run in a little bit. Your take-off (position) is excellent now, but you seem like your reaching for it... This might be contributing to your slippage problem (did anyone else see this?), and it may be tampering with your swing.