PP42's Senior Year Training Blog

[kcvault]

grass vaulting forces you to have a low grip height. learning how to do this properly IMO will only result in a safer jump. I do not want pp to fall on his a@@ on the grass but want him to understand the importance of having a low grip until the drills are perfected.

---Kasey

[powerplant42]

Like I said, I'm not going to argue about grip height anymore... If you'd like to, PM me.

I'll probably have new video by the end of the weekend.

[AVC Coach]

Like I said, I'm not going to argue about grip height anymore... If you'd like to, PM me.

Then this thread should probably come to an end. I recommend moving it to the "Beginning Technique" forum where it obviously belongs.

[rainbowgirl28]

I gotta agree with Morry on this one. Being unwilling to discuss grip height will not only keep you from progressing, it will become dangerous as you move over to the pit. You are overgripped and it "feels" right to you. This could lead to you being more willing to swing up on vaults where you are not getting as much penetration as you think you are, and you could potentially hurt yourself.

Morry rarely gives advice on this website. I can't remember every single person who has replied to you, but I am pretty sure he has way more coaching experience than the rest, and the bulk of it has been with vaulters of your ability level. I would take anything he says very seriously and be flattered he's taking the time.

[ILPV]

So ive been following this thread for awhile now and i have a question
i saw your vid of your attempts at 14'4 but you say your official PR was 11'6
.......
thats a over a 2 foot gap in height why did you skip up to 14'4 and just kick the bar off with the tips of your toes when you could have raises your PR to 12 or 12'6?

[powerplant42]

ILPV - Long story. Also just a bad decision. Won't ever be happening again.

I gotta agree with Morry on this one. Being unwilling to discuss grip height will not only keep you from progressing, it will become dangerous as you move over to the pit. You are overgripped and it "feels" right to you. This could lead to you being more willing to swing up on vaults where you are not getting as much penetration as you think you are, and you could potentially hurt yourself.

I sent altius a PM a while ago about this. I asked what I was doing wrong in my sand drills... No comment on grip. "Jump up more and keep the trail-leg straighter," was the response.

You do all realize that I'm taking this drill (and how I'm approaching its execution) DIRECTLY from BTB2? "Move the grip up" is all over (for this particular drill). In the "Sand Vaulting" thread, altius said this AGAIN... Clearly...

The critical value of sand pit vaulting is that it enables the athlete to develop a free take off much easier than if they use the box. You do not need the precise run required - even from six steps/sorry yanks three lefts - get it approximately right - barrel in, use and upspringing take off and drive the pole up and forward. The emphasis is definitely on jumping UP and "finishing the take off - because it is that emphasis that maximises the energy into the pole (always think of it as a stiff pole) AND also ensures that the take off leg in correctly positioned to initiate the whip swing in the second phase. (Yes I know that it is a continuous chain of energy input but it is easier for athletes and inexperienced coaches if they think of four phases of energy input) The important thing is to ensure that the grip is continually pushed up with an emphasis on driving the pole up and forward - the original examples all show athletes gripping too low to get real value from the drill! The athlete should keep pushing the grip up until they almost stall - then they are about right - until the next session when they again try to push it up!

If you don't believe THAT, just watch the DVD!!!

Sorry, I just won't be convinced any other way until someone puts up a truly substantive argument. Just telling me that I'm wrong (and telling altius too it would seem) simply doesn't cut it. I've got film from the clinic my coach and I hosted Alan for of everyone (except myself) doing this drill... all continually moving the grip up.

I really do appreciate all the advice I get on here... However, I'm especially appreciative of folks who are willing to subject themselves to my own parameters, like vaulter870, who, unlike anyone else, gave me a VERY thorough explanation of what I'm doing wrong in my run... something I'm really concerned about and asked for help with. Now we're PM-ing and getting somewhere with it. I was also very happy that vault3rboy is asking for a run-down of goals of mine, which I'd be happy to get help with!

But I'm not asking for help selecting my grip for sand jagodins. It's clogging the thread.

Sorry for being so contentious.

[KirkB]

PP, I'm not going to give you any advice re sand vaulting, becuz I never did that, but it's time for me to chime in here with some general advice. I usually PM you when I'm about to scold you, but just consider this a "public thrashing" ...

I get that you've read BTB2 cover to cover, and I get that you value Altius' advice over other peoples' on PVP, but ...

You've already shown me that you can easily misinterpret a drill ... the Hinge-Whip Drill, or what I now call the Stretch-Whip Drill. Now before you get all defensive, DON'T! It was more my fault than yours! But it's proof that it's all too easy to misinterpret what someone is saying on PVP. It's far better to rely on your personal, on-site coach, and to only SUPPLEMENT that with PVP "virtual coaching". I know you're going to say that you don't HAVE a personal coach ... but maybe you need a PV buddy or confidant ... someone to talk things over with, and (at the very least) catch your "mid". Most importantly, you're missing the instant feedback that a coach can give you when you get "off track". I know you're going to say that Altius was there with you ... in person, and that's great ... but you must also understand that he had many other vaulters to work with, and even if you're corresponding with him by PM, it's still only very brief comments. This is quite different than having a personal on-site coach. In a sense, some of the people that took their valuable time to comment on your vids in this thread might have even devoted MORE TIME than Altius to study them ... thus, they may have caught something that you or Altius might have missed.

I'll close by saying that the purpose of posting vids on the Video Review forum is to solicit feedback. This feedback might not be as instantaneous as a live coach, and it might not be as good as a live coach (you need to separate the wheat from the chaff), but please don't think for one minute that all you've gotten is chaff. I think you've gotten a lot of good advice. Re-read what RG wrote re the "conditions" of posting on the Video Review forum here ... especially Point #5: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11345

Kirk

[VaultPurple]

Ok since you want to go off what Alan says.. Put in your Beginner to Bubka DVD and go to Chapter 10 at 31:40 to 35:00. Compare your videos to that guy and you can obviously tell what you are doing wrong. Notice how he does not even have to catch his foot on the pole because he drives his chest into it and is able to keep his hips back and the leg long behind him. This guy probably does this drill better than anyone I have ever seen, and Alan claims the guy is only 16 and it was his first time ever doing it!

[powerplant42]

Mitch Fox, yeah I know the clip. You don't think the next session he had him try raising his grip?

We're way over-complicating this you know... Grip up, jump up, stay behind the pole. It's not that complex. If you'd like to discuss the grip issue further, I'll be making a thread for it later today. Let's get it all out there.

KB - I misinterpret plenty... I don't think this is one... And I'm only defensive about the methodology, NOT the technical side of it.

[rainbowgirl28]

I think the point people are making is that the only reason you are staying behind the pole is because you slam against it, not because you are executing a good takeoff. It is difficult to fix it if you are overgripped, which you are. If you were to fix the problem with a lower grip, and then slowly raise your grip, you would find you could grip even higher than before.

The drill of seeing how high you can grip is a good one for measuring progress, not one you should be doing at every practice. I think you're taking it out of the context of the big picture. I am at an airport and don't have my copy of BTB with me, but I think you're picking and choosing what you want to follow instead of applying the big picture.

[kcvault]

think the point people are making is that the only reason you are staying behind the pole is because you slam against it, not because you are executing a good takeoff. It is difficult to fix it if you are overgripped, which you are. If you were to fix the problem with a lower grip, and then slowly raise your grip, you would find you could grip even higher than before.

[VaultPurple]

Mitch Fox, yeah I know the clip. You don't think the next session he had him try raising his grip?

And I bet he did to. But like I said, that kid was doing everything perfectly. When you can do it perfectly from the lower grips, then you can move it up. But still in your videos when you went from a low grip to a high grip, it was not perfect when you were holding lower either.