3 left session yesterday...

[vault3rb0y]

I concur on the pole drop. AVC knows his stuff!

Kirk

Duhh!!

[powerplant42]

Just want to throw out there for clarity's sake that "free pole drop" doesn't imply that the pole is simply being "let go" and free falling... It's a controlled lowering of the pole that should both make the pole fell almost weightless and increase your cadence.

[KirkB]

I totally disagree.

Kirk

[vault3rb0y]

A free pole drop allows the vaulter to run without having to support the levered wieght of the pole around the fulcrum of your bottom hand, instead only supporting the shear mass of the pole as it falls on it own. The only control a vaulter should have on the pole once it begins falling is in initiating the right (top) hand movement on time, so that the COM of the pole remains steady (like a see-saw). In doing so, the vaulter is not restricted by the pole, and can essentially accelerate and jump off the ground as effectively as they would if they had no pole at all (from the hips down)- if they time their drop, hands, and feet correctly.

Now if that description helps you jump higher.... great. But if you think about that at the wrong time you end up with paralysis by analysis. My guess is, "free pole drop" makes more sense on the runway than it does on the internet!! Every drill you do on your run boils down to timing your drop, hands, and feet to line you up correctly. It's like executing a perfect long jump, and executing a perfect golf swing, at the same time. No big deal.

[AVC Coach]

Just want to throw out there for clarity's sake that "free pole drop" doesn't imply that the pole is simply being "let go" and free falling... It's a controlled lowering of the pole that should both make the pole fell almost weightless and increase your cadence.

I agree with Kirk on this! Of course you don't just let go of the pole. I'm not sure that clarification is needed there.

Maybe we're just using the wrong terminology here and it's confusing you PP. It's an "unsupported" pole drop. That means that your bottom hand only acts as a fulcrum like vault3rboy explained and doesn't support the weight of the falling part of the pole during the pole drop. I hope that makes sense. The length of runway needed to drop the pole will depend on your speed, grip height and beginning angle of the pole itself. It's not a "one size fits all" thing.

[powerplant42]

Yeah our words are getting messed up is all. I hate how the language in this sport is so ambiguous...

[BadMotherVaulter]

Most importantly... I know what you're saying haha.

And even MORE importantly, I'm working on it. And my running form.

[BadMotherVaulter]

Okay, i worked my little butt off in the sand last thursday and this afternoon... And for the life of me i could NOT keep my hips from coming through... i could not stay behind the pole at all... And i have no idea why, besides my takeoff which i've been working on.

This is FRUSTRATING.

[KirkB]

BMV, send us a vid in QT. It's hard to guess what your problem is ... your first vid was over a week ago, and I know you've worked your butt off since then, but I don't know how your vault has changed ... if at all.

... i could not stay behind the pole at all...

Explain what your intent is, and what you're TRYING to do about it. I'm not convinced that "staying behind the pole" is something that you should INTENTIONALLY try to do. In the worst case, this leads to blocking out. Best case? I dunno.

Kirk

[vault3rb0y]

The only way you will stay behind the pole is by setting up a great free take off. And once the pole makes contact, it's just physics, your hips HAVE to move underneath you. Now you can either resist your hips, but pushing with your hands to keep them back, or ACCELERATE your hips, by whipping your trail leg. If you are trying to "ride it out" its understandable that you would have a frustrating time, because it's not truly possible if you plan on going UP!. So by staying behind the pole, you simple give yourself more of an axis to swing on.

To "feel" this, go down to a 6 step pop up with a grip only about 2 feet higher than your top hand. be bouncy, don't worry about speed, and Jump off the ground and FEEL yourself in the air before the pole makes contact. Stretch as high as you can, and when the pole makes contact, swing immediately and accelerate your hips instead of fighting them. It should be easy if you have enough time in the air to really stretch after take off. THAT'S what we are going for!! You only stay behind the pole BEFORE the pole makes contact, then its go time! This concept is fundamental to the kind of vault that is ideal, but could be dangerous if you take a vault that is far under and try to apply it, because if you dont finish your take off well enough, you end up upside down and over the box!

I Would do tons and tons of these take offs (at least 100) from whatever steps you want- 1, 2, 3. Your grip should be low enough that you dont have to fight the pole drop. BUT you also need to do tons (at least 100) of 3 left pole drops to get the timing down. This might take a week to get the 100 reps, but thats actually good to do it a couple days in a row, because until it starts becoming neurologically familiar to you, it will start making sense on the runway. The general rule is 100reps to form "muscle memory" and much more than that to break similar patterns of muscle memory, or "bad habits". But you need to combine the feeling of the good pole drop with the feeling of "free-ness" before impact with the box. I would start with stiff vaults, and then grab a pole that bends a little and work your grip up. But you gotta stay free. This process should take a month or two. If you have any questions feel free, but that's how I feel you would have the easiest time learning this technique. That combines what worked best for me with what i feel might work best for you.

[BadMotherVaulter]

BMV, send us a vid in QT. It's hard to guess what your problem is ... your first vid was over a week ago, and I know you've worked your butt off since then, but I don't know how your vault has changed ... if at all.

... i could not stay behind the pole at all...

Explain what your intent is, and what you're TRYING to do about it. I'm not convinced that "staying behind the pole" is something that you should INTENTIONALLY try to do. In the worst case, this leads to blocking out. Best case? I dunno.

Kirk

As soon as i leave the ground, my hips surge forward and in front of the pole... When i'm trying to keep my trail leg back and just basically hold that C-position.

I don't have any newer videos, I practice alone pretty much but i'll see what i can do this week about getting some.

Vault3rb0y, that drill you described is exactly what i've been doing in the sand from 6 steps while stiff-poling. Yesterday, i did enough from 3 lefts to make me feel like i got hit by a mack truck today, i'd guess upwards of 200. I mainly have just been concentrating on the takeoff and staying elastic.

[powerplant42]

Are you finishing your take-off? (Is your toe pointing back down the runway when you leave the ground?)

Are you pulling?

Is your drive-knee staying up?