13 year old NY state record holder

[Barefoot]

Superpipe... I think you are "partly right" about the high elbow... but some elite vaulters display this action at the up levering of their plant as well, Mack, Miles and Walker come to mind. The left (bottom) arm system "as a whole" may be the problem. Doing slow motion plants allows the vaulter and the coach to address this system. My thinking is that its easier to properly position the wrist with a looser bottom grip... proper wrist position makes the lower and supporting elbow position easier. What I would be looking for is getting that bottom arm system in support of a tall plant. But the grip is really fundamental.

Petrov's love of Warmerdam and steel vaulting has a built in mechanism in regards to the plant. Steel vaulters were sliding their bottom hands up at the plant. No other grip was possible, than a tight top hand. And because the hands were together and raised as tall as possible over the head... the hand position at take-off was Optimal! One way to correct the hands is through steel pole vaulting.

By the way... this girl is very talented and precocious.

[rainbowgirl28]

I think Karmen's top hand is just fine. She closes it in plenty of time for a firm grip.

Watch again KB... she starts to close it as she raises the pole... good timing... but then she actually opens it again, a double grab of sorts. You can see it most clearly in the Practice #1 video. It doesn't look she her handgrip is changing height very much when she does it, but it's definitely a flaw that could cause her to do so in the future, and could be a hard habit to fix later. It's pretty subtle.

I agree with everyone about the monkey grip and the bottom elbow being high and the head throwing back, but Alan seemed to reject those as his super subtle thing, so that's why I am going with this.

[Barefoot]

Becca, Are you saying it's the re-gripping Alan is hinting at? And how would you fix it if so?

[rainbowgirl28]

Becca, Are you saying it's the re-gripping Alan is hinting at? And how would you fix it if so?

I don't know, that is just my guess! I guess we'll have to hear from Doctor House himself.

I fixed it in my newbie girls by having them slide the pole, HAH. But that's a band-aid, not a long-term solution. We'll spend a lot of time next year working on how they carry the pole and doing standing plants, walking plants, etc.


For a young talented female athlete like this, it's really important to get the foundation set for an outstanding run and takeoff. She's going to inevitably hit some plateaus, possibly even regress, as her body changes and she matures. A stronger technical foundation will set her up for a higher level of success, and will reduce her chance of injury.

[Barefoot]

Becca...

I'm really fascinated by this conversation, even if Allan tells us her fault is that her shoes are too tight.

I coach a lot of young girls... when they pole push they are gripping tight with the top hand? Yes? So you have the strong top hand, but not the means to get it there with a pole drop. I think there is a reason Isi practices her plant action with a strong closed top grip and uses that black electrical tar grip tape. I hear coaches tell girls all the time to just "hang on to the pole" when they re-grip... in the past I might have blasted them with sticky spray to help and remind. More recently I have gone to addressing the grip during carry and plant and have had much better results fixing those sliding hands.

[altius]

It is definitely not thyroidalhippocraticemphysema! It does manifest itself after take off - but is unlikely to be problem caused by the run,plant and take off. I even suspect that she hit her mid perfectly.

[IAmTheWalrus]

Is it that her head goes to the wrong side of the pole?

[rainbowgirl28]

Is it that her head goes to the wrong side of the pole?

Her head looks fine to me (at least as far as being on the correct side of the pole, I don't approve of the head throwing back part). I've always taught right handed vaulters head to the left, legs to the right, for good alignment.

[Barefoot]

If its not due the ground work... I'm gonna go with Becca's turning out of the right leg. Very unusual, and would have to say, I'm very unsure how to fix that, other than than going to Kirk's bars.

[altius]

I have time to indulge because I have come to a stop with my games book - hope temporarily - but pushing the envelope is not easy. PVP is a nice relaxation. I hope folk will see that this is a useful exercise for several reasons.
1. Enthusiastic coaches looking at the same film are seeing different things - has this got implications for coaches who offer advice to another coaches athletes? Unless know they are both on the same page?
2, The general pattern of thinking has been correct - looking at run plant and take off for problems here that will often emerge as symptoms later on.
3. You tend to see what you are looking for - strangely it seems that coaches go through phases where they focus on a specific aspect of the vault as being crucial. Unfortunately this means that they do not see things they should be seeing -simply because they are not looking for them!
4. Once the issue is identified - you will find yourself looking for it in every athlete you watch - but you will rarely see it if the athlete has done most things correctly to that point.
5. Does experience make a difference? By that I mean 10/20 years of reflective coaching and not one year repeated 10/20 times!
6. A clue - you will see it many beginners - but again - rarely with an athlete who runs and plants correctly as this you lady does pretty well.

Note that i went thru this exercise several times with Alex P watching his athletes -where he asked me what i was seeing. Problem is that you have to be watching as a coach not as a spectator - which is a great temptation when Dima was jumping!!

[Andy_C]

1. Enthusiastic coaches looking at the same film are seeing different things - has this got implications for coaches who offer advice to another coaches athletes? Unless know they are both on the same page?
5. Does experience make a difference? By that I mean 10/20 years of reflective coaching and not one year repeated 10/20 times!

1. Most definitely! But I really think it depends on the coaches. One can argue that if you have different coaches looking for different things that could be good since you would cover all your bases - so to speak. While it's great in theory, you will find very few coaches that 'compliment' each other in that way. Those who will compliment each other must believe in the same principles of technique in particular otherwise you will end up with some kind of funny "Frankenstein" technique.

2. It does but again it's quantity and quality. Just because they're old and gray doesn't mean they've learned anything with their life! But then again, if they are old and gray but very observant and reflective that extra time can make a huge difference! Perhaps people do place too much of an importance on quantity however. Quality of experience can be a tremendous difference maker even if you haven't been at it for very long!


Anyway for an answer:
She can't seem to get the left elbow under and past the pole (at least not at the right time). I think that's at least part of the reason why she can't drop her shoulders down at the right time and why she gets hung up at the top. Once she twists a bit she can get it under and through. We can see at that point she really can drop the shoulders (just far too late). This is very common with beginners but once you can do the run, plant and take off stuff well it should be fixed.

-Andrew

[altius]

"Quality of experience can be a tremendously difference maker even if you haven't been at it for very long!" Suggest you go and talk to the senior physicians in your hospital and see what they say about that! But so what is the answer and more importantly how do you try to fix it???