swing timing

[vaultnaked352]

Not many, even Bubka himself admitted to only achieving a free take-off a hand full of times in his entire career.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I beleive Bubka admitted to only acheiving a pre-jump a hand full of times in his career and that a free takeoff was simple by his standards.

Free-takeoff and Pre-Jump are the same thing. Im pretty sure. Basically, its when the vaulter is airborne before the pole begins to bend. Like if u look at the picture of bubka Sooch posted . Thts a perfect example of a Free-takeoff. I believe, Bubka said tht the concept of the free-takeoff was simple but he only had achieved it a hand-full of times

[sooch90]

No. Free takeoff is taking off with an unbent pole

Prejump is jumping just slightly before the pole tip hits the back of the box

[vaultnaked352]

oh, ok cool didn't kno tht. Sooch r u a coach or a current vaulter (or both) Whats ur PR??

[sooch90]

No i'm not a coach. Nor do I claim to be on (or even a good vaulter). My p.r. from last year was 13 feet. I have yet to P.R. this year.

But let me ask you, have you been coached by LHSvaulterJJR? Is he a critical part of how you've jumped as high as you have?

For some reason, I highly doubt that. Maybe because he's still in high school, or maybe it's because he's only had 2 years of experience as a vaulter. Neither of which provide him with sufficient qualifications to call himself a coach.

[vaultnaked352]

"And even if Tracy had put her hands up high, she still would have been under. Having a high plant and pushing the pole up with the bottom arm has no effect on the positioning of your takeoff step. You may not look as under, but you certainly are still under, which does not efficiently transfer all the energy you built up from the run."

This is false. By having a higher plant, this effects the angle of the pole which does affect how close or far (takeoff) the vaulter is from the box. Its kind of like if u had two technically identical vaulters (almost impossible but ok) Jumper A is 5' 6 and Jumper B is 6' 2. (huge difference) Both of them are on the same pole, lets say a 15' 160lbs. Jumper A's takeoff with be considerably further out than Jumper B due to the fact of height and pole angle. Jumper A is shorter therefore his pole angle is less than Jumper B. I don't know if this is what you were talking about or meant in your reply, but i know this is correct. Also what can affect the takeoff is your grip. Narrow grip vs. Wider Grip
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Live, Love, Vault

[sooch90]

"And even if Tracy had put her hands up high, she still would have been under. Having a high plant and pushing the pole up with the bottom arm has no effect on the positioning of your takeoff step. You may not look as under, but you certainly are still under, which does not efficiently transfer all the energy you built up from the run."

This is false. By having a higher plant, this effects the angle of the pole which does affect how close or far (takeoff) the vaulter is from the box. Its kind of like if u had two technically identical vaulters (almost impossible but ok) Jumper A is 5' 6 and Jumper B is 6' 2. (huge difference) Both of them are on the same pole, lets say a 15' 160lbs. Jumper A's takeoff with be considerably further out than Jumper B due to the fact of height and pole angle. Jumper A is shorter therefore his pole angle is less than Jumper B. I don't know if this is what you were talking about or meant in your reply, but i know this is correct. Also what can affect the takeoff is your grip. Narrow grip vs. Wider Grip
_____________________________________________________________
Live, Love, Vault

okay, I'm not going to disagree with that. I was sort've refering to the bottom arm, but yeah you're right with the high plant issue.

maybe you could answer my other question though?

[vaultnaked352]

But let me ask you, have you been coached by LHSvaulterJJR? Is he a critical part of how you've jumped as high as you have?

For some reason, I highly doubt that. Maybe because he's still in high school, or maybe it's because he's only had 2 years of experience as a vaulter. Neither of which provide him with sufficient qualifications to call himself a coach.

Yes he has been a huge part of my success mainly because he can pick things out of my jump and let me know what i am doing wrong and right. We have no coach and I have completely taught myself how to jump. My own knowledge of the vault and, yes, the Petrov Model ( GO PETROVITES!!! ) combined with the help of him and another jumper, Andrew Walnum, have hugely contributed to my success. This would be my 3rd season jumping, I started in 10th grade. (i'm a senior) My P.R in Comp is 15' 6 and i was way over it. lol. but u kno how tht goes. In practice i have kicked a 19ft crossbar, no lie (no need 2) and i'm most likely going to jump 17ft by the end of the season. But the answer to your question is yes, LHSVaulterJJR, or Jason Roberts, is a huge part of my success. [/b]

[vaultnaked352]

maybe you could answer my other question though?

are u talking about LHS vaulter or the bottom arm?

[sooch90]

Yes, but is he your coach? Or is he a helpful teammate? They are 2 very different things. I give advice and stuff to my fellow vaulters all the time, but I don't go around calling myself a coach.

[vaultnaked352]

He's a teamate but, its more like a coach-thing because when i go to bigger meets (like this Friday) Pepsi Florida Relays, State Meet, JR olympics, NON: he comes and coaches me. Here's my 15' 6 jump, i kno there is a lot 2 fix but watch my plant. My plant and swing are some of my biggest attributes of my jump and me taking off under is my biggest problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F1IEiU8_-Q


Also, look at this. Freeze my plant and observe how high my hands/arms are. Then freeze all 3 of their plants and see how high their arms arms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQO61KXeBos


tell me what u think about my jump

[vaultnaked352]

Sooch i just looked at your jump tht Jason posted. You had 13ft but your turn was late. If u practice to turn earlier, right when u begin 2 pull/shoot, u'll have it easy. Ur hips should be turned over by the time u reach the crossbar, or ur hip will hit it all the time. Tht what happened 2 me at State last season.

[vault3rb0y]

Are you seriously trying to call someone out based on their current jump?

Thats your problem in a nutshell right there "Jason", (thats getting confusing, but anyway) you are judging technique based on how someone does something at this point in time. Any coach who knows anything will tell you that it is not how you are actually doing something, it is the technique you are STRIVING for. There are actually only a handful of concepts in the petrov model, but as a result of these handful of concepts, EVERYTHING in the vauult has a purpose. You are confusing the purposes of certain things in the vault. The bottom arm is straight because they load the pole well enough to bend it until their bottom arm is straight. In fact, some coaches like Agapit (a VERY well respected coach) even suggested that you do not need upward pressure with the bottom arm. It just sits there stabalizing, and All the energy should be transfered through the top hand. That was debated, but take it however you want.

Jason, you are seeing things in the vault and basing conclusions and principles based on that. Thats called convergent thinking. What you need to do is understand the principles first, and Diverge from there, using divergent thinking (go figure), to think about how to go about apply these principles in the vault. Then you will understand how and why the elite vaulters do things the way they do. Ill give you a hint, most if it is based on stiff poling technique. What does the bottom arm do there?

SO you can look at MY jumps too if you like, and pick apart how i could do things differently to jump higher, or realize that how you jump now is not important, its how you hope to jump in the future. And if a 16'6" in PRACTICE is the best vault your model has produced thus far, maybe you should reconsider how YOU hope to jump in the future as well. And stop posting on videos of vaulters on YouTube unless you are prepared to talk about how to improve people at every level of the vault inteligently if need be, because a true model applies to every level of jumper.