eeeeggggghhhhhh...UMD meet (1-16-10) 14'6

[joebro391]

Kirk, we have a 15' 155 and 160, etc, etc. You don't think I could make either of them work (if you're alluding to the fact that the 15' 150 is too soft)?? -6P

[KirkB]

Kirk, we have a 15' 155 and 160, etc, etc. You don't think I could make either of them work (if you're alluding to the fact that the 15' 150 is too soft)?? -6P

Didn't realize you had those ... must have missed that post too.

I do think you can make those work ... and I am alluding to the fact that the 15' 150 can't be much heavier than the 14' 170 ... which you blew thru yesterday.

Since you have those poles, it will be difficult to justify buying 14-0 180 and 14-6 185 poles. If you had to buy, those would be better, due to your grip of 13-6 to 13-9. and your difficulties with the 15-0 150.

I just hope you don't get too anxious to move your grip up too early due to the length of the pole. The length of the pole should NOT influence how high you grip. You need to keep your grip down to learn a proper upswing ... without tucking or flat-backing.

So you're on 7 lefts right now. What do you expect to run from outdoors? After the 14-0 185, what will you use for your long run (maybe too early to say just yet) ... but what poles after the 15' 160 do you have to draw from ... when you REALLY learn how to jump and swing ... from a long run!?

Kirk

[joebro391]

Kirk: right now, my plan is to stay at 7 Lefts for indoor and then move to 8 Lefts for outdoor. And that's certainly not rush/change (if anything, I'd stay at 7 lefts, longer). Since I currently don't have a stiffer 14' in my possession (aside from the 185 which would almost certainly require an 8-left approach AT LEAST), no 14'6 or 14'7 poles, I'll just have to hop onto at 15', this coming weekend. But what's a good game-plan there? Should I assume that last week at Maryland was just a bad day for me? If I had to say one thing, I'd say the best course of action would just be to blow through the 15' 150 with a 13'6 grip, during warm-ups and then hop on the 155 and AT LEAST just take off with it. But how will I know if I should raise the grip?? How do I know whether or not i'm gripping too low on it?? the recommended grip is between 13'7 and 14'7. I'd want to just take a jump on the 15' 150 with a 13'6 grip, blow it out the back of the pit, and then raise the grip a fist (to 13'9) and then jump on the 15' 155 (all in warm-ups). If I jump then, like I jumped last night (and I see no reason why I shouldn't), then I should me money. Then we're talking a 30"+ push-off. Arguments and reasoning?? -6P

[KirkB]

... I'll just have to hop onto at 15', this coming weekend. But what's a good game-plan there? Should I assume that last week at Maryland was just a bad day for me? ...

I think you're improving week-by-week faster than even you realize. You're just now getting some of your "bottom half" technique down pat, which is giving you more oomph on bigger poles. Now that you've blown thru the 14' 170 I think you should assume that you're going to ... very quickly ... start blowing thru the 15' 150.

As far as grip goes ... and a more detailed answer to your questions ... I'd rather see your vids from yesterday ... as soon as your coach posts them ... and then I can give you a better reply.

BTW, I just posted a little "challenge" for you in the "PR on a 14' Stick" thread.

Kirk

[joebro391]

okay, my coach finally uploaded the video footage onto his website. The bad news is, the angle is horrible and the don't have the first half of my first attempt at 4.25 or my last attempt at 4.45.

http://steinerdeca.com/Lynchburg%20Webs ... %20Joe.wmv

The only thing I can really say (which isn't mush):

RUN: 7 Lefts from 91'3 - 93'
POLE: 14' 170
GRIP: 13'6-13'8

JUMP 1: i believe my step was around 10'10 (wanted to be about 11'3), and I blew through with the standards at 60cm and landed approximately in the center of the coaches box.

JUMP 2: I believe my coach was telling me that my step was in the ball-park of 9'6 (very ouch), so the jump doesn't look so solid (mostly hesitance and flat-back). I also never fully drop the shoulders back, and in turn, never finish the vault. I managed to maintain a strong drive-knee and produce a powerful swing, but the jump was still garbage because of taking off, nearly 2 feet under. (standards were at 80cm).

JUMP 3: Took off again, around 9'6. The rest of the jump was garbage because I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get any penetration and was full of hesitation. You can clearly see that the pole never made it to vertical

JUMP 4: it was at this point that I moved the step back to 93' (from 91'9), and then hit the next two take-off's around 11'3. Now, to me, from this angle, it looks like I was leaning back, though, I don't think it would have been possible to get on this pole if I had been leaning back (plus my coach said that I hadn't been), so I'll have to assume it was the angle of the camera. (I really wish there was more i could said, but the video doesn't allow it ) I have a pretty powerful swing to inversion, no flat-back that I can see, but it looks like I was flagging out (was that just because the pole was so soft?) I can't imagine having been able to swing my ankles all the way to my hands without flat-back AND THEN flagging out, so I guess that was just because the pole was so soft. Then I blow through (standards at 80cm), and land at the back of the coach's box.

JUMP 5: not caught on camera, but I believe it was very similar to #4, but with a 13'8 grip.

So...I need to make sure my step starts becoming more consistent and that I finish all my jumps...and a stiffer pole might help to...any other interpretations?? -6P

[KirkB]

I'll focus just on jumps 2 and 4 ...

JUMP 2: I believe my coach was telling me that my step was in the ball-park of 9'6 (very ouch), so the jump doesn't look so solid (mostly hesitance and flat-back). I also never fully drop the shoulders back, and in turn, never finish the vault. I managed to maintain a strong drive-knee and produce a powerful swing, but the jump was still garbage because of taking off, nearly 2 feet under. (standards were at 80cm).

It's always nice to clear a bar ... but if the bar had been 7" higher, you would have knocked it off ... just like your Jump 4 attempt at 14-7. This may be a little too obvious, but you can get away with flagging out at 14-0, but you can't do that same style of jump (flagging out) at 14-7. The higher the bar, the more you have to shoot 100% STRAIGHT UP!

So in future my advice on the lower jumps is to not only try to clear the bar ... but to do it with proper technique ... shooting straight up. Really, your technique over ANY bar should be more-or-less the same ... don't stop inverting just becuz the bar is low. It's this practice at lower heights that warms you up for the PRs later in the meet ... don't pass up these opportunities to improve your technique DURING a meet.

JUMP 4: it was at this point that I moved the step back to 93' (from 91'9), and then hit the next two take-off's around 11'3. Now, to me, from this angle, it looks like I was leaning back ... I have a pretty powerful swing to inversion, no flat-back that I can see, but it looks like I was flagging out (was that just because the pole was so soft?) I can't imagine having been able to swing my ankles all the way to my hands without flat-back AND THEN flagging out, so I guess that was just because the pole was so soft. Then I blow through (standards at 80cm), and land at the back of the coach's box.

I don't think the pole is too soft or hard ... you're just not using it right. Can't see your takeoff very well, so no comment on that. But you swing 75% the way up ... then flag out. Why?

I often advise vaulters that they're flagging out due to lack of momentum ... it's gravity that's causing them to flag out. However, I don't think that's your predicament ... I think it's something else.

One thought I have is becuz you're just not used to getting 100% inverted. Another is that you lack the confidence to shoot straight up ... some kind of fear that tells you that you'd better shoot over the bar else you might land on the front slope ... or in the box. I think you should stay on this pole til you lick that fear ... you need to gain confidence that YOU need to shoot straight up ... and the momentum of the pole rotating to vertical is what will carry you into the PLZ. If I'm wrong about WHY you're flagging out then I don't get it. I don't think it's becuz you have insufficient momentum to continue your inversion ... I've seen lots of vaulters with less momentum than what you have here turn that kind of a bottom vault into a good clearance. By "getting back" that last 25%, you'll get your body pointing the right way ... then you'll FLY over the bar!

It's important to learn good technique on a softish pole. If you focus too much on getting on a bigger pole ... and higher grip ... then you're never going to lick this technical flaw. Technique first ... then pole ... then grip!

Bear in mind that I'm basing this advice on the run and takeoff you had in that meet. Once you improve THAT, then that's what will force you onto bigger poles ... but you're not there yet.

Kirk

[joebro391]

Alrighty, I can dig that Kirk. So tomorrow is my longer run day, so I'll hop onto that 14' 170 from 7 and see what I can get out of it. I think you're right, that I'm not getting back all the way because I'm not used to the feeling quite yet. I AM CAPABLE of doing it, as per my 15' clearence (I think that everything was crap except for the fact that there was no flat-back, no passive phases, and I came back nearly all the way, if not ALL the way). So If that's my biggest problem, at the moment, I'm not that worried; and I can fix that in practice/in warm-ups before the meet/on the lower heights.

What I currently plant on doing is opening up this weekend on the 14' 170, and if the jump is 'satisfactory' I'll either stay on it, or if I'm blowing through on it, the only place to go is onto the 15' 155. I'll start with my grip at 13'6 (or higher, if I'm successfully gripping higher on the 14' 170). I don't think I have many more options than that. What do you think?? -6P