This is how to swing to the top!

[kcvault]

By the way I dont double leg swing but I do all of my swinging drills with both legs hanging, I fell like this is a good way to learn to swing the legs and body together??? What do you guys think?

I do almost all my swinging drills with two legs also. I actually think in alot of ways it is more benificial, and also alows you to do alot more conplx drills. However every once in a while I will try to do all the drills with an independent trail lef the only difference I see is less power.

---Kaseu

[KirkB]

KC, Brown takes off under, the pole bends before he leaves the ground, and as a result he's leaning back too much in the inverted-C ... and he overbends his trail leg knee in the C. However ... other than those faults ... it's a very nice C!

His inverted-C (in its most extreme state) is 3 frames after his takeoff. Four frames after that, he passes the chord with his trail leg. So now count 4 frames past the chord. This is the position that I refer to as the "forwards-C". The WHIP is exactly between the inverted-C and the forwards-C ... right at the chord. Too bad we can't see his trail leg at the chord ... damn umbrella and lady in the pink top! Oh well, it's going so fast that it would probably be blurry anyway.

And yes ... I agree with you that he's moving his top arm forwards, at the same time that he's moving his trail leg forwards. However, the way I see it, his trail leg INITIATES the downswing, and his top arm FOLLOWS shortly thereafter. I guess this still doesn't mean that he isn't applying PRESSURE with his top arm simultaneous to his trail leg ... you just can't see it with the naked eye.

However, as I told KE, I would be happy if I saw BOTH the top arm and the trail leg downswinging to the whip SIMULTANEOUSLY. He did get to a nice elastic stretch, but since he was "under", I think he should have compensated by starting his downswing a bit earlier. Either that or fixing his steps and takeoff so that he's not "under".

So you have a takeoff (frame 0), inverted-C (frame 3), downswing (frames 5-7), whip (frame 7), upswing (frames 8-15), flat-back (frame 16), extension (frames 17-30), pushoff (frames 31-43), and clearance (frames 44-56).

A very nice Petrovian 18-8 jump!

Kirk

[kcvault]

I agree with all you said above though I was just pointing out that he appears to pull with his bottom arm. I will email and ask if he was trying to.

---Kasey

[KYLE ELLIS]

I think you guys get to wrapped up in other vaulters jumps, I don't look to anybody elses jumps except Bubka when I am looking for someone who does it right.... Bubka was near perfect and everyone else you can point out atleast 2-3 (if not alot) things they are doing wrong.. I posted the video of my friend only because it looks very simular to Bubka's swing and I can talk to him about what he is doing.

[kcvault]

Bubka studied several different athletes in order to develop his philosophies on pole vaulting. He tried to take the attributes of all the best vaulters of the time and apply them to his vault. Though that does not mean Bubka's vault comes with out its flaws. A lot of time he was not able to time his swing with his top end resulting in a awkward sideways position coming off the pole (such as his 18-8 jump in the 1997 world championships.) In several of his videos he releases the pole with his bottom and top arm at the same time. However he could get away with these things because he was so fast and so strong and on huge poles compared to his body weight, resulting in big push offs.Obviously there a lot of very important things in Bubka's vault that he does perfect, but there are things in other people's jumps that are better then they are in Bubkas. http://www.stabhochsprung.com/ go to this website scroll down until you find Michal Stolle click on his 5.55 jump. (I can not open his other jumps on my computer so I don't know what they look like.) His swing and timing with his top end is near perfect. He does not have a free take off like bubka, but with the exception of that try and find a more technically sound vault. Also I chose my video of Sean Brown because it was in a program that could be played frame by frame and it looked to me like he was doing what agapit said to do with your bottom arm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b8OKuHLR68 however if you look at video of bubka you can see that he also poles with his bottom arm in order to make his hips rise and accelerate his swing. Anyway personally I would to have bubka's run and free take off with Stolle's swing and inversion, or tarasov's.

---Kasey

[KYLE ELLIS]

Bubka studied several different athletes in order to develop his philosophies on pole vaulting. He tried to take the attributes of all the best vaulters of the time and apply them to his vault. Though that does not mean Bubka's vault comes with out its flaws. A lot of time he was not able to time his swing with his top end resulting in a awkward sideways position coming off the pole (such as his 18-8 jump in the 1997 world championships.)
In several of his videos he releases the pole with his bottom and top arm at the same time.

I think this is my last post as I am getting bored with this topic. Bubka came off the pole early when his pole was over rotating and when it wasn't roatating enough. He would let go and try to continue the flight of the path in-front of the bar when the pole was to small... And when the pole didn't rotate enough he would let go and flag out towards the bar. But when his takeoff was and when he was on the right pole it was flawless. I think the reason he got twisted sometimes is because he was so agressive with his movements (very active) that an off run, bad takeoff, too small or big of a pole his timing would get off.... Sometimes it takes a passive phase to rebalance everything to come off the pole pretty; obviously this wasn't trained in Bubka. Doesn't really matter he jumped to clear the bar, and 18'8 & 19'4 were intermediate bars to him, trying probably to find the right run and the right pole.

However he could get away with these things because he was so fast and so strong and on huge poles compared to his body weight, resulting in big push offs.

That's a cop out, there have been vaulters very close to his speed and strength, none of which jump anywhere near as high as he did. The key word that should be used is vertical velocity. Thats what determined his pushoff, not him actually turning and pushing off the pole.

Obviously there a lot of very important things in Bubka's vault that he does perfect, but there are things in other people's jumps that are better then they are in Bubkas.

I just fell out of my chair and am embarassed that you said that. I have never seen any jumper do any phase better than Bubka, I don't know what video's you are watching of Bubka, but look at his 6.11 jump. Thats what it looked like when his run and takeoff were on!!

however if you look at video of bubka you can see that he also poles with his bottom arm in order to make his hips rise and accelerate his swing. Anyway personally I would to have bubka's run and free take off with Stolle's swing and inversion, or tarasov's.

NO HE DOESNT , he swings with extended arms then as the pole begins to unbend his left arms starts bending, but I think that is due to the angle of the pole. Watching it he doesn't pull down until his COM is to the vertical plane. His bottom arm doesn't even appear to bend until his trail foot as swung well above his head.

When you guys realize that Bubka is the greatest and the closest thing to perfection we have ever seen then maybe you will look to his jumps and realize what an incredible thing it was that he did. (even on his not so good jumps) Everyone else coached by Petrov hasn't come close to Bubka, Isi, Gibillisco, etc. They are no where near his level.

[kcvault]

When you guys realize that Bubka is the greatest and the closest thing to perfection we have ever seen then maybe you will look to his jumps and realize what an incredible thing it was that he did.

I am not denying this but would like to say if you truly want to understand Bubka's philosophies you would need to study the people he studied to understand how he came up with those philosophies. You can not truly understand Bubka's vault with out understanding dutch warnerdams vault. I am also saying why would you study only one person Bubka may be the closest thing to a perfect jump but that does not mean there is not certain apects of other pole vaulters jumps that were done slightly better then bubka's. Bubka and petov realized they could not just study one pole vaulters jump for tecknique so they studied all of the best vaulters of the time, even though there main focus was Dutch Warnerdam. I belive now it would be appropriate for the main focus on being to study bubka, But though we do not make them are main focus we should study the others who are the best in the world in order to better understand all aspects of the vault.

---Kasey