Moving up poles

[VaultPurple]

You can vault however you want... As my first couple of posts said, nothing wrong with it.

But you are mis-informed when it comes to catching a lip on the box. This year at the D1 NCAA east regional championships one of the competitors missed the competition because during warm ups he was pushing the pole caught the lip of the box and went down, hard... I can consider it general consensus that 'A and T' Greensboro is not a crappy high school, nor are the vaulters in that competition. The competition was flipped and a nice little head wind ensued.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that something was wrong with that box (like it was put in wrong). I am from NC and have jumped at A&T several times, have not pushed there, but have seen high school kids do it without problems. But i bet I can tell you why it messed him up so bad... Since he probably was just using pushing as a warm up drill like I used to, he probably pushed with just one arm until he jumped, then threw the other arm up there. That is how I started pole pushing, but it only works from a few steps because the pole tip is hard to control and if the tip can easily bounce over the box (with our without a lip). To keep that from happening you have to grab with the left hand on your second to last step.

[rainbowgirl28]

I can consider it general consensus that 'A and T' Greensboro is not a crappy high school, nor are the vaulters in that competition.

It seems to be general consensus that it is usually a crappy place to vault though


It's obvious that VaultPurple is vaulting higher pushing the pole than carrying the pole, he has a list of well thought out, valid reasons. Vaulters do not exist in a vacuum. Maybe in a perfect world he would vault higher carrying the pole, but given the reality of his bad habits, mental weaknesses, and physical limitations, this is what is working better for him (not making fun of VaultPurple, those are all things we struggle with).

Maybe someday he will switch back to carrying and go even higher, maybe not. But for the purposes of this thread, I don't think trying to convince him to carry the pole is helpful advice.

[VaultPurple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovrrYykC1BY


Just to show I remember how to carry a pole I thought id do it at one practice.

First jump I use the 155 from 6 and dont get back on it really good so don't go up so much

Second one I move back and invert a lot more and put about 2 feet over the bungey, just grab it on way down

Third video I move to 160 and take hands up a few inches to try to soften it some but just didn't really feel I was going in good so just sat over bungey (and pole kicks so much I can basicaly sit 6in over my hand hold).

[kcvault]

I know you posted this a while ago but just thought I would comment on it. Your first jump is by far your best jump. The first jump was the one you stayed right side up the longest on before swinging. therefor the pole was able to rise as you swung and you got deep into the pit. It seems from this video and from the video at the beginning of the post when you move up poles you get nervous and get in a hurry to get upside down. This is the opposite of what you need to do, as the poles get bigger it becomes more important to be patient so that you are able to get a full swing without going to your back.

[altius]

"I am a big advocator of there is no correct way to vault." Is that what you really believe?????

[bel142]

I'm not sure if that was a serious question, but the short answer is yes. I would welcome a PM to discuss it if you would like.

[altius]

A very serious question indeed! So serious that your position needs to be clarified. If you really are saying that there is no correct way to vault then that is complete nonsense! If you are saying there is no one best way to vault then you will only restart a debate that has been raging on this site since before I joined a couple of years ago. Before you do that I suggest you read or reread the relevant posts because I for one am not going through that process again.

[bel142]

Indeed I am saying there no correct way to vault its not necessarily nonsense. Just like saying that you can drive a car with your feet, but that doesn't make it a good idea... Now if a person is using a pole and getting over a bar, that is pole vault, plain and simple. However there are better methods to achieve this, if that was not true then every one would be a world record holder.

The sport has evolved from what we knew to be correct into what we now do to achieve results. For example closed grip at take off in the early turn of the century. From having the closest take off foot as possible all the way to holding under pole in a ball when fiber glass was new. If the world record is broken tomorrow with completely new method, then that person now has the best method to pole vault...

So the fluidity our sport shows us that there is no correct way to vault but it does show us that there are better methods available to athletes.

[joebro391]

The sport has evolved from what we knew to be correct into what we now do to achieve results. For example closed grip at take off in the early turn of the century. From having the closest take off foot as possible all the way to holding under pole in a ball when fiber glass was new. If the world record is broken tomorrow with completely new method, then that person now has the best method to pole vault...

well...perhaps more so, whoever gets there hips around 6.40. I personally believe that hooker CAN go 6.16, but i don't think he'll ever get his hips around 6.40. Bubka's 6.40-jump is what i model my vault after (perhaps a little free-er take-off and a straighter leg, but more or less, THAT jump). Until someone else puts there hips up there, i'll continue to be a petrov-bubka advocate...just saying. i'm going to practice now though bye haha. -6P

[KirkB]

6P, you imply that Hooker and Parnov don't follow the Petrov Model. They do.

And the last time I checked, Bubka's WR was 6.15 ... not 6.40.

While I'm disputing your statements, I would also like to remind you that there's a distinct difference in the technique between "Agapit's 6.40 Model", and the failed attempt where Bubka's hips ALLEGEDLY cleared 6.40 but he fell on the bar. Which of these 2 techniques are you advocating ... becuz they're different?

Just stirring the pot.

Kirk

[joebro391]

6P, you imply that Hooker and Parnov don't follow the Petrov Model. They do.

the take-off is not free enough and the knee-drop erks me. though, i'm still wondering about the give-and-take (knee drop slows swing but loads pole more/constant drive-knee doesn't load pole as much, but swing is faster) So...to me, and i know this is a "style thing" for most people, but he's not a true petrover until he stops dropping the knee (which i think he's greatly reduced, or at least started picking it back up, recently)

And the last time I checked, Bubka's WR was 6.15 ... not 6.40.

So? we all know the reasons why the WR is what it is, we're not starting that topic up here. HOWEVER, most will agree that he could have AT LEAST cleared 6.20, on most of his WR clearneces. So unless you're gonna say that hooker goes over the bar, better than bubka, until hooker's hips go around 6.30-6.40, I'm sticking to the Bubka-Petrov Model

While I'm disputing your statements, I would also like to remind you that there's a distinct difference in the technique between "Agapit's 6.40 Model", and the failed attempt where Bubka's hips ALLEGEDLY cleared 6.40 but he fell on the bar. Which of these 2 techniques are you advocating ... becuz they're different?

I'm still working on the basic Bubka-Petrov Model, before I really get into the 6.40 Model. The only thing I like about the 6.40 Model, is the pulling with the bottom arm, to increase swing-speed, though i've been debating that, in my head, the past few months. I think that if one pulls with the bottom arm, the can't get in 'inside' of the pole and in turn, can't fully invert. So i'm still thinking on it. I prefer that one simply swings to inversion; but I'll figure that out, eventually. The jump that i referred to, was a MAKE at 6.01, where his hips went AT LEAST 6.30 (though i'll admit, max clearance was probably 6.20, at best FOR THAT PARTICULAR JUMP). Don't know what jump you're talking about, attempting 6.40 and coming down on it. -6P

[KirkB]

I'm still working on the basic Bubka-Petrov Model, before I really get into the 6.40 Model.

... The jump that i referred to, was a MAKE at 6.01, where his hips went AT LEAST 6.30 (though i'll admit, max clearance was probably 6.20, at best FOR THAT PARTICULAR JUMP). Don't know what jump you're talking about, attempting 6.40 and coming down on it. -6P

Bubka never attempted 6.40. I think I'm talking about the same 6.01 WC jump that you're talking about. Some Japanese biomechanics computed his hip clearance at 6.40+. I looked closely at that jump, and the rules of PV are that you must clear the bar on all 3 sides for it to count. Even if the bar WAS at 6.40, he would have hit it either on the way up or the way down ... depending on where he set his standards. He would NOT have cleared it cleanly on all 3 sides. 6.20? Maybe. I think you're actually saying the same thing as me about that particular jump.

... So i'm still thinking on it. I prefer that one simply swings to inversion; but I'll figure that out, eventually.

"... one simply swings to inversion ...". That's what I like about Hooker's / Parnov's technique (which still meets all of the criteria of the Petrov Model ... Hooker simply swings to inversion ...

Kirk