Trying to fix my plant and takeoff *updated 12/30/08*

[powerplant42]

Let's not forget that periodization is an important aspect of training... it becomes increasingly important during the season.

Sooch, maybe (definitely) you've misinterpreted what I've been trying to say.

There is no push or 'pressure' with the bottom arm. Both hands go up, and that is that. There is no pressure, but at the same time there is pressure. It's an impossible thing to describe with words. I think KB's one word doctrine is good here: REACH.

Stop worrying about that and start worrying about a high bar. Your school will probably not let you put it in. You will most likely have to get them to put it in. Put up the money (probably anywhere from ~$50 - ~$100 for you), and DON'T LEAVE THEM ALONE until you get a bar.

[sooch90]

Well, at least for me, I've tried for about 2 years now trying to plant without putting any pressure at least with the initial plant, and it just doesn't work for me. My plants become horrendous to the point where I can't use stiffer poles. The only way I can get some what of a decent plant is by thinking of hitting the plant aggressive and hitting the pole BEFORE it hits the back of the box. Even in Beginner to Bubka, Alan says on page 70, "The notion of putting upward pressure on the pole with the left arm assumes greater importance as the young vaulter begins to bend the pole and the moves to higher grips and stiffer poles". I even asked Alan about this before and he said that right at the plant there should be a moment of pressure with the bottom arm.

But anyway, let's not get into this discussion; it's been discussed and probably still is being discussed on other threads.

I'm gonna really try to see what I can do with this high bar. However, with the current economic situation and the fact that the school over budgetted the athletic department, I'm really don't think it's going to happen any time soon. We'll see though


Hey Charlie, that drill sounds very neat. I do have access to a rope, but I think I need some clarification to the drill. Do you start in the backward's C position of the vault? With your drive knee up and you trail leg back? Or do you start with your trail leg already swung forward infront of you and perpendicular to the rope and your body?

Thanks!

[charlie]

Very simple drill!! STAND straight up-- right hand , reach up, left hand about 20 " apart --hold your drive knee parallel( DO NOT SWING) your drive knee LEADS to the L position and pull your HIPS upto a full inversion, and when you come back down, start again with your drive knee parallel. When you cando 4 sets of 8 touching the ground after each rep--Move to 4 sets of6 ,and don't touch the ground. I'm 65 yrs old and Ican do the 4 sets of 6!!! As I said in my last post, you will do inversions up off the end of the pole that none of your competitors can do!1 GUARENTEED Coach Charlie

[KirkB]

... I also need to keep on planting strongly. However, I think at least technically, I need to shorten the amount of time I put pressure on the pole at the plant.

Let's be careful to recognize when the PLANT ends. It ends as soon as the pole hits the box. Up to that point, "pressure" is good. After that point, there should be no pressure.

I gave you some additional advice about this in my new "Is Pushing with the Bottom Arm Good or Bad?" thread.

... I might be maintaining the pressure for too long because I'm trying to focus on hitting it hard and early. So maybe now I gotta work on releasing that pressure immediately and letting my swing come through?

What do you guys think about that? Should I maintain the pressure, or should I release after the initial pressure at the plant?

Well, the swing definitely doesn't start until the pole hits the box. So if you follow my advice and stop the pressure just as soon as it hits, then the exact timing of all this becomes quite obvious.

Kirk

[KirkB]

Very simple drill!! ... Coach Charlie

I agree that this is a good conditioning drill to strengthen the abs and all the other core muscles required to "muscle up" to an inversion.

As a conditioning and strengthening drill (thus the high reps and added ankle weights), I think it's good.

However, as a technique drill, it doesn't simulate a real vault nearly as well as the hip-circle-to-handstand on the highbar. It's on this drill that you'll get the feel of the sensation of your shoulders "dropping" as your hips (and the rest of your body) rising.

Given a rope and a highbar, I'd do both, differentiating between technique and strength/conditioning.

But if you have a pullup bar (or rings), then you can probably do Charlie's drill on that, and I think it might be even better than on a rope. The reason is because the drill would be more symmetric (each side of your body), rather than emphasizing only the top arm side.

Charlie, what do you think?

Kirk

[charlie]

Kirk, I think they all work, but if you look at bubka and isi at the exact time when they PASS THROUGH the L position the left arm colapses to pull the HIPS up and through the turn and I think it duplicates the rope drill rather than a high bar drill. It seems to work for ALL my vaulters and has been successful for any who do it!!!! Charlie

[vaulter870]

hey what i see occuring through all of the videos is i believe as powerplant has said several times get your hands in front of your feet at takeoff. that should be your main focus. you need to work on getting that last step for the takeoff down underneath you. this will help with the fact that you are a little flat at the takeoff. you also seam to have a tendency to lean back on the pole and i think that i even saw you throw your head back one or twice. all of that is exactly the opposite of what you really wanna do. It slows/stops pole speed and in pole vaulting the name of the game is POLE SPEED. if you cant move that pole to vertical then you are screwed getting on bigger poles. overall though it looks like the advice you have been getting is helping but you still need to be trying to really get that last step down so that you can get your hands in front of your feet at the plant. this will help you a great deal more then anything else in fixing your plant

[powerplant42]

as powerplant has said several times get your hands in front of your feet at takeoff.

This is not what I mean. (Unless I'm misinterpreting YOUR statement on MY statement...)

MUCH better plant, but it's still a little bit late. "Hands before feet!"

I use this phrase as a coaching queue... Get the hands to the proper positions before the corresponding foot hits (but then it's not really the 'correct' position, is it...). Conventionally, vaulters are taught the 3 step (STEP) plant with 'parallel', then some sort of preparation phase like 'hand by the head', then 'up'. However, if you can focus on getting to these 'classic' positions BEFORE their classically corresponding foot strike, then you will plant much better/earlier.

But Sooch's plant is no longer his 'limiting factor'. It is now his swing (arguably it is not having access to a high bar).

[sooch90]

Hm, as far as putting pressure goes, I might have misworded what I've been trying to do. Maybe not "pressure" but just a quick and hard punch at the plant, like "BOOM". My planting que is hitting the pole before the pole hits the box. So maybe this is just putting pressure right up to the point where the pole hits the box, but I think I'm putting just a split second more than that. I've tried putting 0 pressure at the plant. Maybe it's because I don't have a great coach to walk me through it (most likely), but that technique has always resulted in the first plant of the comparison video. So at least for me, I'm having far more success by thinking of hitting the plant with the bottom and top arms at the takeoff.

I still haven't gotten a chance to do the rope drill or any high bar stuff. I might be able to do some high bar things on Friday and I'll hopefully be able to do rope stuff on Wednesday. However, how do you guys suggest I go about doing the high bar stuff? My gymnastics experience is basically 0. I've done core workouts and swinging bubkas on pull up bars, that's about it. What're the major things I want to be able to do on the high bar?

I think I definitely still need to work on my plant for now. The videos don't show you this, but I'm a little inconsistent. Sometimes I get a nice early plant with a strong punch, but other times it's late and I don't get the early pressure/plant. I'll get some more consistency by doing Jagodins I think.

Oh another thing, I found that I haven't been running nearly as hard as I could have been. I think by really putting some force on each step in the beginning of the run is giving me more speed after I hit the midmark/ takeoff.

[powerplant42]

Try these drills on the high bar (they are for non-gymnasts!):
Run and jump to the bar, swing long
Whip-hinge
Big tap swings with drive knee up (use straps if possible)
Swinging Bubkas/Bubkas/Cheater Bubkas
Muscle-ups (tough... these require a little gymnastic activity/movement, but are mostly strength)
Most of these + a few more things are demonstrated in my "PV High Bar" videos on Youtube.

[vaulter870]

yes you were dead on powerplant i just say it a little differently