PoleVaultPower.com

CoachEric wrote:

You are absolutely right you would have to lean forward or push your top hand in front of you to allow a straight bottom arm at the plant with a "correct" grip width. Why on earth would anyone do that?

Because pole angle and space behind the pole are both function of bottom arm extension, not top arm extension.

A basic goal in vaulting is to create the largest pole angle ( referenced from the plant box ) possible at plant and take-off. Leaning forward or planting in front of yourself goes directly against this, not to mention a host of other issues.

An athlete taking off perpendicular to the pole, having executed the prerequisite free takeoff, creates a higher pole angle than an athlete trying to extend solely with the top arm. This doesn't require that you lean forward at a 45 degree angle. You merely have to put your top arm bicep on your cheek.

I'm not following any of those last comments, but my point is you don't want bottom arm extension for the reasons I indicated.

A tall, upright posture with the top hand extended straight up along side of the body combined with a free take-off ( leaving the ground at an infinitesimally small amount of time before the pole tip hits the back of the box ) gives you the largest pole angle possible for the most efficient vault take-off. Recorded evidence indicates the optimum take-off angle in the pole vault is around 18 - 20 degrees or so. I forget the exact number, but it relates directly to what the human body can withstand most efficiently when converting horizontal runway speed to the vertical jump component in the pole vault.

A tall, upright posture with the top hand extended straight up along side of the body...gives you the largest pole angle possible for the most efficient vault take-off.

I disagree. Pole angle is dynamic. At the instant that the pole tip hits the box, the pole is rotating upward. The pole tip is fixed, so the movement of the pole is at a right angle to the pole. The pole is not moving straight upward, perpendicular to the ground - it is rotating, moving perpendicular to the pole. That's why pole angle is a function of the position of the bottom arm, which is perpendicular to the pole.

But this is a point that's not really relevant for this vaulter. We both agree that maximum pole angle is good, and that the athlete shouldn't block. And I think you would agree that "extension" is a good cue, even if we disagree in a very specific facet of the motion, which for practical purposes, is microscopic. There are some coaches on this forum who like to argue semantics... I'm not one of them.

straightup wrote:not a bad meet. i was gripping 13-3 on a 14 165 carbon...
i tried to get a better angle.

especially at this grip...

even when the shoulders are correctly engaged with supple and fluid support to promote a full body stretch reflex (paraphrasing) - which I believe you advocate and which I support (CoachEric) - there is going to be, and should be (IMHO) a slight bend in the lower arm... with the elbow pointed outward...

especially at this grip...

If I am overlooking something, please elaborate...
I like the info in your posts... I think you are giving solid guidance overall
I have observed vaulters with the fully extended bottom arm accompanied by a wide grip and it is not a method that I coach-It can extend during the initiation of the swing post take off while the pole is loading... there is simply not much room for it to do so at a 13'3" grip

I have to say, to both Superpipe and CoachEric - this is the type of constructive dialogue that is useful to myself and others - thank you...
V

coachjvinson wrote:I have to say, to both Superpipe and CoachEric - this is the type of constructive dialogue that is useful to myself and others - thank you...

Glad that got resolved. As is often the case when you are trying to describe complex movements and their timing, the debate can become one of semantics. It was for that reason that I queried the issue of a straight left arm in a pm to coacheric instead of taking it up here. Hope everyboy is indeed satisfied. If not I will throw in my two cents worth.

altius wrote:Hope everyboy is indeed satisfied. If not I will throw in my two cents worth.

I'm am satisfied with the results but interested in your two cents.

grandevaulter wrote:

altius wrote:Hope everyboy is indeed satisfied. If not I will throw in my two cents worth.

I'm am satisfied with the results but interested in your two cents.

I second the motion...

I've started a new thread.

http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtop ... 38&t=27462