Recent jumps

[KirkB]

[Andy_C]

Your biggest problem is that you take off under. This actually puts you into a position were you cannot execute a proper swing. Notice how you're already bending the pole before you leave the ground. If you pause your videos just at the right spot (a split second after toe-off) you can see yourself in the classical "under" position at take off;

shoulders back
hips forward
head facing down a downward angle in comparison to the torso line
take off leg heavily bent at the knee
your femur of your take-off leg is relatively straight with your torso line (ie. you are unable to bring your leg further back for a more powerful swing)

That all puts you in a position were you cannot swing to your utmost potential.

This is the main reason why you can't cover the pole in time to catch the recoil.

Taking off under also forces the pole to bend early relative to your jump. The pole will actually bend early and uncoil early giving you even less time to swing up. While the pole will actually bend more if you take off under thus prolonging the bending period before the recoil, you are still losing time because the action phases of the pole started much earlier in comparison to your take-off and swing action. Here's a little "action phase timeline" between you and your pole in scenarios where you take off under and have a free take off.

Take Off Under:
Your pole-
--------[plant]-[begins bending]-----------------------------------------------[maximum bend]-[recoiling]-------------------------------[straight]
You-
---------------------------[toe off]---------------[finish take off]-[begin swing]-----------------------------------------------unable to cover pole...


Free take off:
Your pole-
-------[plant]-[begins bending]------------------------------------------[maximum bend]-[recoiling]-------------------------------[straight]
You-
-------[toe off]-------------[finish take off]-[begin swing]----------------------------------------------------[covers pole]


Additionally, if you do swing properly (long body/straight leg/straight at the chord/break at the hips at the right time), you will actually put more energy into the pole causing it to bend more thus prolonging the pole action phases giving you more time! Being in the right position will also allow you to swing faster, cutting down the period between where you begin the swing and cover the pole. Now I've explained this all at quite a basic level (compared to how complicated it can get) but the most important thing for you to know is that you need to learn how to achieve a free take off! You have to cover the pole as fast as possible in relation to the pole action phases.

Of course, a pre-jump will make things even better!!!

[vault3rb0y]

A pre-jump is really just a mindset of try to leave the ground an instant before the pole hits the back. It's an extension of the take off, and you dont train differently for a pre-jump as you do with a free take off.

Now... as an athlete i know how easy it is to be told "just have a free take off!" Doing it can be difficult without rebuilding your entire jump. Do as much straight pole vault as possible. It's hard to get away with holding high on a straight pole without a free take off. It's also easier psychologically.

[powerplant42]

I've been working with g00ey with some pre-jumps in the grass and sand, but probably haven't been riding that enough... That's something to work on all summer long... With A pole SOMEWHERE. I'm sure he'll find a way!

[KirkB]

I've been working with g00ey with some pre-jumps in the grass and sand, but probably haven't been riding that enough... That's something to work on all summer long... With A pole SOMEWHERE. I'm sure he'll find a way!

PP, are you Gooey's PERSONAL coach, or VIRTUAL coach?

3P0 and Andy: Great advice for Gooey!

I could argue that jumping a bit "out" is better than jumping "on" or "under", but that's more of an advanced technique thing, IMHO. Nevertheless, you need to learn how to JUMP on takeoff, and straight-poling will do that for you ... for sure!

Maybe their lack of straight-poling experience is why there's so many vaulters today that load the pole before takeoff. [sigh]

I really don't understand why anyone would WANT to be under, but I guess I was lucky in my career that with (a) my good - not great - HJ and TJ, and LJ skills; and (b) only stiff poles in Jr. HS, I really had no choice but to learn how to get off the ground BEFORE the pole hit the back of the box, and it was relatively easy for me.

Today, I think you young guys need to be more disciplined. You (and your coaches) need to cognizantly THINK ABOUT a free takeoff. It's actually not that hard, once you put your mind to it.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

I'm his 'virtual coach'... I tried to get his REAL coach involved, but he seemed uninterested... (sort of?) Anyway, it's much more just discussion about what goals to focus on, what to do the next day, evaluating performance, etc.

Today, I think you young guys need to be more disciplined. You (and your coaches) need to cognizantly THINK ABOUT a free takeoff.

[Andy_C]

A pre-jump is really just a mindset of try to leave the ground an instant before the pole hits the back. It's an extension of the take off, and you dont train differently for a pre-jump as you do with a free take off.

Now... as an athlete i know how easy it is to be told "just have a free take off!" Doing it can be difficult without rebuilding your entire jump. Do as much straight pole vault as possible. It's hard to get away with holding high on a straight pole without a free take off. It's also easier psychologically.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the case that people do not do enough straight pole vaults. It really is one of the cures for taking off under.

While I also agree that the pre-jump is an extension of a free take off, I do think have some of its own unique qualities that will differentiate it from a free take-off. I think a person has to be mentally "conditioned" to do a pre-jump. They need to know the sensation of jumping and not "feeling" anything for a split second before the pole hits the back. When you think about it you're not *really* don't anything different from the free take off except perhaps the take off spot but you can completely mess up the pre-jump if you react differently to the sensation of it. The more ambitious the pre-jump the more this becomes a factor. They also need to have it drilled into their minds that they still need to jump up vigorously otherwise the benefits of the pre-jump would be mitigated. You are given a split second before the pole begins to work and you need to take advantage of it by jumping up hard. While this point isn't any different from a free take off as well, I see that people do tend to jump differently and even plant differently because of the unique sensations they feel during a pre-jump. Judging distances also need to be acknowledged, the take off spot for a pre-jump is not the same as a free take off. And generally, the bigger the pre-jump the bigger the difference. That difference needs to be maintained especially during the run where most people tend to stretch out their last strides to make sure they reach the box. This could be all the difference between a free take off and a pre-jump.

While you don't necessarily have to train differently, as in the difference between taking off under and a free take off, there are special qualities in the pre-jump that need to be addressed in their own way. Perhaps you need to adjust your parameters a bit but the training isn't all that different. There are specialized exercises you can do for the pre-jump however! Most of them consists of getting somebody used to the "feeling" as well as confidence building and focus exercises. As you've indicated the pre-jump, like the free take off, is about mental conditioning but it does have some more "quirks" when compared to the free take off.

But by all means, everybody should be jumping more with a stiff pole!!!

P.S. One last thing with the pre-jump, I think that the more ambitious (bigger) you want to make it, the more it differentiates from the free take off. A small pre-jump may not be all that different from a free take off. But for a hypothetical *huge* pre-jump (1.5ft+ elevation) we start heading into uncharted waters. If you ask me, this is how the world records of the future will be set.

I really don't understand why anyone would WANT to be under, but I guess I was lucky in my career that with (a) my good - not great - HJ and TJ, and LJ skills; and (b) only stiff poles in Jr. HS, I really had no choice but to learn how to get off the ground BEFORE the pole hit the back of the box, and it was relatively easy for me.

Kirk

Honestly, I think that there could be a couple of reasons; some people do it because it's just the way they've been taught and have always vaulted. In some of the other more difficult cases, either they think it's the better way because they can see the pole bend more... or because they're scared and having the pole in contact with the ground provides them with a psychological and physical support.

[g00eY]

Hey thanks for the comments and advice everyone! I will have a couple vault days this week before my last meet for the season, and I'm hoping I'll get a big PR in. I noticed from the last time I jumped that while my mid was dead on, I ended up about 6 inches under on every jump. I was watching some video (nothing worth posting...) that my plant is way out in front of me again (if you've been following my progress this season you'll know what I'm talking about), but what's weird is that I thought I had fixed that problem for the most part. I'll see if the problem disappears tomorrow in practice... hopefully it does.

[powerplant42]

Problems don't simply disappear... The plant is a complex action that takes time to learn, and probably the same amount of time to fix (depending on how incorrectly you've been doing it and for how long). There can be periods of time during development/retraining where things go right, but then the next day it'll all be wrong again. Patience...

[Andy_C]

Hey thanks for the comments and advice everyone! I will have a couple vault days this week before my last meet for the season, and I'm hoping I'll get a big PR in. I noticed from the last time I jumped that while my mid was dead on, I ended up about 6 inches under on every jump. I was watching some video (nothing worth posting...) that my plant is way out in front of me again (if you've been following my progress this season you'll know what I'm talking about), but what's weird is that I thought I had fixed that problem for the most part. I'll see if the problem disappears tomorrow in practice... hopefully it does.

Just remember that every stage of the pole vault is dependent on all of the stages that preceded it. If you're having problems with your plant, it could very well be a result of your rather low pole carry throughout your run. Also, if you're having problems with your run it could be because your pole drop and plant is funny. Remember that the plant, from a complete perspective, starts from the very first step. The lower you keep the pole, the heavier it's going to "feel" forcing you to either step further in front of yourself (which will increase your stride length but also block-step you depending on severity) and/or lean your upper body backwards. You might be planting out in front of yourself to compensate for that sensation of extra weight, I'm not sure. While you can never have an absolutely "weightless" drop, you can greatly reduce the effect of the weight of the pole by learning how to carry and plant well.

In any case, a lot of people can get bamboozled by problems regarding pole vault technique. They may see it as, "there's a problem at [x] therefore we must focus in at point [x] and fix it." Where in reality the problem at [x] may have started at [a]! Now I'm not talking about you in particular or any specific individual for that matter, but just to give an example; I notice a lot of people ask the question, "why can't I swing up?" or "why can't I invert?" and they come up with all sorts of wacky ideas regarding the swing and whatnot. One look at their jump and you can see that they have no chance to swing properly as their run up, plant and take off are 40 different flavors of wrong like a Ben and Jerry's truck of incorrectness.

Now again, I'm not talking about you and your problems aren't anywhere near as bad as described in my ice cream truck example. This is just a general statement about some novice and amateur vaulters. All the feedback you've been getting from everybody on this thread that have focused on your actual swing will certainly help you with your swinging. I just wanted to add a little something extra to get you thinking "outside the box". The pole vault is a wholistic event which can be divided into stages, each stage being dependent on the other. A problem in one area may not always originate from that stage! And of course, your true goal is to cure the disease and not merely treat the symptom! The questions to ask at the beginning are always "what is the problem and where is it coming from?" Now that's a very difficult question to answer if you don't know what a good vault consists of but that's why PVP is such a great resource as it provides a 'pool of knowledge' for you to look for answers. I also recommend Alan Launder's Beginner to Bubka and Isinbayeva Too book sold on this site. I hate to sound like a commercial/testimony guy but that book really helped me get my head around what I should be trying to do especially during my first year of vaulting. I'd say it's probably the best pole vault text written in English. Especially since back then I just met my coach, who *REALLY* knows her stuff, but she just emigrated from Eastern Europe and really didn't posses the English skills required to explain the more complicated aspects of the pole vault. After reading the book I did the old "ooohh, that's what she's talking about!" Now her English has improved drastically and can explain all that stuff quite well, but still got a leg-up from the book. In any case I would strongly recommend it.

As always, a good coach and a good attention span will probably be your two best allies against bad technique. A coach who has no idea what they're doing or an athlete who won't listen to anybody will result in the worst offenders of bad technique - refer to ice cream truck example

It's good to understand the nature of your event, even if you're not trying to become a theorist or something. It will definitely help you understand your mistakes much better so you can get over them a lot quicker.

[g00eY]

Thanks Andy_C. I do think that the biggest changes in my technique from this season were all in my run/carry/drop. I wish I had started working on these elements earlier in the season, but recently I've spent more emphasis on this parts of the vault over anything off the ground... or at least I've been consciously thinking about working on these parts (regardless of how much progress has been made... haha). I was planning on getting some video today, but it ended up being too windy to vault. Hopefully the forecast for tomorrow (scattered thunderstorms) will be wrong and I can get some video in before my meet on Friday.