Question for the Audience

[VaultPurple]

http://polevaultvideos.fliggo.com/video/4XsGFZC7

Jumping at first outdoor meet
Height - 13'7.25
Pole - 14' 150
Hand Hold - 13'5
Run - 8 lefts 95ft
Mid - 44ft
Takeoff- 10'2?

Im facing a delima. For the past 3 months I have been on the same set of poles. 14' 145 14' 150 and 14' 155. I usualy hold them all at the same place (around 13'2) and have just been trying to work on my form in order to get a higher push off. At this meet i figured id just try something new so i moved my hands up about inch from max hand hold on the 150 to see what would happen. I ended up having to put standards on 75 but just nicked bar but wind and stuff was bad so i wont too concerned with not making the height, just trying to figure out where I want to go with my vault.

My debate is weather i want to stay on 14' poles and just move up weight to like 165(I am only 135lb) or to start moving up in grip height and staying in the 150 range. Poles are not much of an issue and neighter is more speed (for the most part). In the video im using the 150 but was having to run a little slower because i was blowing through so much. And no matter how hight I go up on any of my 14' poles it doesnt seem to affect my penitration.

For most people this is an easy choice. Higher hand holds equals higher vaults. And I think if i go ahead up to 14'6 poles and move hands up then i will pr rather quick in the near future but my technique will suffer. The only reason I have stayed on the 14' poles is because I have been trying to improve my push off to over 2 foot (ie. jump atleast 14'6, which i can do in practice with good conditions, just never works in meet).

So question for the audience? Move up poles now or stay on shorter poles and go for a higher push off?

[powerplant42]

I think you do have yourself a fine dilemma...

I'm assuming that you take-off under normally, is this right?

If you raise your grip, you may very well vault higher... Because the pole will have less forward energy! You'll probably be FURTHER under at take-off. But then you have yourself a tougher problem in fixing your take-off.

So I guess it's not a difficult decision after all... Fix the take-off and you'll HAVE to move your grip up!

[VaultPurple]

I'm assuming that you take-off under normally, is this right?

If you raise your grip, you may very well vault higher... Because the pole will have less forward energy! You'll probably be FURTHER under at take-off. But then you have yourself a tougher problem in fixing your take-off.

So I guess it's not a difficult decision after all... Fix the take-off and you'll HAVE to move your grip up!

em... no not quite

Ive accualy fixed my under take off for the most part by usuing the mid mark chart and working on my turn over so thats not really a problme any more (Just under in this meet because wind was constantly shifting from tail wind to head wind. So if i were to move my hands up, i would just change my mid and take off farther back.

Im more intrested in coaches opinion on vaulters trying to get their hand grip up as high as possiable rather than trying for a higher push off.

[powerplant42]

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17039&start=0

This might be of relevance... Probably just the first 1-2 pages.

I would raise the weight of the pole by 5-10 pounds and then go up 6" when you're blowing through hard (with not a lot of bend).

[VaultPurple]

topic was pretty intresting, didnt read too far into it yet...

BUT I would advise you not to ever reccomend to anyone to raise their grip height 6 inches if they are blowing through a pole. Most coaches reccomend a finger at a time, to as much as a fist. But if I were to raise my grip from 13'5 to 13'11, according to the mid mark chart that is basicaly enough to push my step out 8 more inches, and my mid out two foot. That big of jump can be very dangerous and get vaulters hurt.

[powerplant42]

Your midmark is dependent on your top speed, not on grip. Only your take-off point and starting point are dependent on grip.

Do you know what your midmark is right now? It should be ~45' if you are running according to your grip, but I'm betting it's closer to 47'-48'... Can you tell me why?

[VaultPurple]

Your midmark is dependent on your top speed, not on grip. Only your take-off point and starting point are dependent on grip.

Do you know what your midmark is right now? It should be ~45' if you are running according to your grip, but I'm betting it's closer to 47'-48'... Can you tell me why?

Im betting your wrong on that one. If you look closely beside the runway you will notice a littel red smuge. It is a shoe I put down at 44' feet for my mid when I was holding 13'2 in the vault befor this. But as you can tell if you look close (think around 7seconds) my foot is about 1 foot behind the shoe, meaning 45'.

And for your comment about midmark being dependent of speed not grip... DUHHH, me moving my hands will not make my footwork change. What i meant by saying 6 inches up is 2 foot in mid mark, Is that it takes that much more speed to push the pole to verticle so you should NEVER move you hands up that far at once... even if you are blowing through a pole. This is because if you move your hands up you have to move your mid mark back, and if you are hitting your mark when you blow through and just move your hands up without changing your step, then you will be really under.

[powerplant42]

This is because if you move your hands up you have to move your mid mark back, and if you are hitting your mark when you blow through and just move your hands up without changing your step, then you will be really under.

So no vaulter should move their grip up... Unless they've consulted the chart? And if someone's blowing through with little bend, they shouldn't move their grip up? What should they do then?

[VaultPurple]

So no vaulter should move their grip up... Unless they've consulted the chart? And if someone's blowing through with little bend, they shouldn't move their grip up? What should they do then?

I never said that... Have you even read what this whole topic is about? weather or not to move my hand grip up.

The only complaint I had with what you said was that you said 6 inches. That is way too high of a jump in grip and can result in serious enjury. That is why you should go up 1 inch at a time.

[powerplant42]

Of course not 6" at once... I was primarily trying to help YOU, and as YOU know not to do that, there wasn't much of a problem with me saying that, right?

[KirkB]

I'm more intrested in coaches opinion on vaulters trying to get their hand grip up as high as possiable rather than trying for a higher push off.

What I read here is that VP wants an opinion of an experienced coach ... not another HS vaulter that has not experienced (either coached or vaulted) with poles of the weight, length, and PR that he has.

Sorry, PP, but you've replied to VP 5 times in the past 5 hours, and I think you guys should have just taken your "peer-to-peer" comments offline ... to private messages.

To be blunt about it ... I think this thread has been watered down to drivel ... to the point where an experienced coach won't have the interest in chiming in .... they may not even have the time or interest to read thru the 10 posts thus far

PP, as altruistic as your motives might be, you should give more experienced coaches time to answer the original post. If a few days go by, and no one responds, then it might be more appropriate for you to chime in.

You remind me of the kid at the front of the class that puts his hand up for every question the teacher asks. The only difference on PVP is that you don't have to put your hand up and "get permission" before you answer.

Kirk