What does the bottom arm do????

[vaultman18]

This is a hot topic here on PVP and I want to know what you do if you don't pull. It is one thing to say someone is wrong but it is another to explain why. But I am not looking just for the why I am looking for the alternative. People say there are "many ways to skin a cat" so lets hear it. Is there more than one way to vault 21'???

[VaultPurple]

Where is the one for "It depends"?

The way I look at it the vaulter needs to be taught what to do with their hands in steps depending on how they are learning.

First Stage

Athlete should be taught how to 1 left grass vault with a straight pole. Having them start with right hand over shoulder and jumping as high as they can and reaching as high as they can with their right hand, then riding pole back to ground with rigid body keeping leg back. But for them to push the pole to vertical without a box you have to tell them to let their left hand come into their chest so a very slight pull is required.

Second Stage

Do the same thing as grass vaulting but now into the sand pit. Here you can add another left or two for some more speed. They will do it exactly the same as the grass vaulting except they only have to allow (or slightly pull) bottom hand towards them enough for the pole tip to fall into the sand, then they can relax the left hand and the sand will keep the pole from slipping.

Third Stage

Move to the pole vault pit with the same drill and type of jumping. Your grip should have moved up a little more in the sand so it should be higher than you can just jump like in the grass vaulting. Because when you go to plant in the box the grip should be high enough so that when you jump the pole is at an angle you can just relax the bottom arm at the plant and just worry about driving the top hand as high as possible and jumping with your chest forward and leg back. As grip gets higher and it becomes harder to hold pole over shoulder because of weight, have the athlete begin to carry the pole. But in this stage there is practically no use of the bottom arm.

Fourth Stage

Continue three step straight pole vaulting and begin to work on swinging on the pole. I recommend teaching the pole drop, plant, and high bar swinging ever day even before moving to the pit so when they move to this stage they will know what to do. But as you learn from the high bar, you can swing your hips up and invert without ever pulling your arms when on the high bar. So when you begin to swing up straight pole vaulting you can plant just like earlier with relaxing the the left arm and swinging through and off the end of the pole. As you turn it is more like your arms follow through past your body as the speed from your swing and inversion launches you off the pole.

Fifth Stage

As the athlete progresses in straight poling and their grip moves up they should start bending the pole. For a guy I would have them start on about a 13' pole at their body weight and as they move up closer to the top of the pole it will start to bend. There will be a portion of the pole between straight pole vaulting and bending the pole where they might start to get stuck so if they hit a point where they just can not get the pole to vertical they can be moved back to 4 lefts. Once they have started to bend a pole a little and are getting used to how it feels (they should hardly notice if the progression is done smoothly enough), move on to next stage

Sixth Stage

Once the athlete has bent a pole and is not going crazy flying through the air wildly, you can start emphasizing how to use the bottom arm. When the pole is planted, the right arm needs to be driven up high as you jump but the left arm needs to be relaxed so that the pole tip will actually fall into the box, if you try to push the left arm up before the pole is planted, you will miss the box. Focus on waiting for the pole tip to hit the back of the box and then thinking of driving both arms UP as high as you can. When done correctly with a free take off the right arm should be straight over your head and then your chest should follow through and up so that when you leave the ground your chest and body is in front of your top hand and the bottom arm is slightly in front of head and almost straight. The higher grip you have the straighter the bottom arm will get. It should never be pushed into to pit but always UP! Because the chest is driven through and up and in front of the top hand you should be able to swing just like on a high bar. And like how you do not have to pull to swing up on a high bar, you do not have to pull to swing up on the pole vault pole. You should think about pushing that pole up and driving it to vertical.

After the inversion and you come out of the swing as quickly and powerful as you can you will keep that motion moving up and off the end of the pole by turning and allowing your arms to pull through your body. But you will find that if there is a point where the pole vaulter tries to pull their self off the pole, or push off the top of the pole (like where they physically try to push more out and feel the resistance) then they will just be pushing the pole tip into the box which pretty much stops the rotation of the pole. The pull through should almost feel effortless. The energy and speed in the inversion and push off comes from the run, jump, and swing!!!


So to answer the question.. It depends on where you are in your learning curve and where you are in the vault...

Just my .02

[kcvault]

What the bottom arm does depends on the technique you use to jump. I believe you can use your bottom arm to bend the pole but not to bend the pole properly. If a vaulter hits a big bottom arm they tend to have a low bend making it difficult to get inverted, they get pushed into the bar and have less room for error. This does not mean you can not jump high with a big bottom arm the french jump very high this way, I do however believe that this creates a more dangerous vault.

I believe a vaulter should try to catch with both hands as high as possible almost as if they are trying to jump over the tip of the pole. Then as the vaulter swings they should drive the top hand through the box will they swing creating the longest lever possible and allowing the hips to rise. The bottom hand should create space butt needs to bend a little in order to stay high and create a high bend that rises instead of sinks, this will allow for the maximum amount of push off the top of the pole. The bottom arm needs to be broken in and pulls during inversion helping accelerate the hips upward.

Again I do not believe that having a big bottom arm is necessarily wrong, but I believe there is a safer more consitant way to jump.

--Kasey

[KYLE ELLIS]

I think the previous two people go off subject with the question. Vaultman is asking what the bottom arm does as soon as the pole hits the back of the box in relation to starting the swing...

[vaultman18]

Ok we now have a couple of responses. Awesome!

VaultPurple how long do you push up? And how much do you drive your chest up and in? And Why?

KCvault I am not interested in just jumping high I am interested in WR and higher. I know for a fact you can pole vault many different ways, it has been proven over the last 40 years. Can you jump 20'3" and push with the bottom arm?

[kcvault]

KCvault I am not interested in just jumping high I am interested in WR and higher. I know for a fact you can pole vault many different ways, it has been proven over the last 40 years. Can you jump 20'3" and push with the bottom arm?

Yes. Renaud Lavillenie 5'9 jumps 19'8. If he was the same height as bubka he would have three inches more height and 2 inches more reach this puts him jumping over 20ft. It may not be ideal but considering only one other person has ever jumped this high it is a huge jump without bubkas sprint speed and strength. Also consider that Renaud Lavillenie's pole drop and run are not as efficient as bubka's and he tends to overstride's and lean back a little at take off. Imagine if he did these things as well as bubka but still jumped the way he jumps after he left the ground. I do not think the maximum heights for these type of jumps are that much different. I do think however at an elite level who ever runs the fastest, and jumps up the best at takeoff in the right position is going to jump the highest.

I do not like the big bottom arm but in this type of jump it is functional.

I think the previous two people go off subject with the question. Vaultman is asking what the bottom arm does as soon as the pole hits the back of the box in relation to starting the swing

The bottom arm might pull at some point in order to accelerate the swing but I believe other then that it does very little to start the swing and even a vaulter with a big bottom arm needs to focus driving the top arm through the box and not try to row from the bottom arm.

--Kasey

[vaultman18]

Yes. Renaud Lavillenie 5'9 jumps 19'8. If he was the same height as bubka he would have three inches more height and 2 inches more reach this puts him jumping over 20ft.

Squeeking over 6.01 is not 20'3 or even close to 6.40.

It may not be ideal but considering only one other person has ever jumped this high it is a huge jump without bubkas sprint speed and strength.

What do you mean "only one other person has ever jumped this high"? I believe 10 men have cleared 6.01 or higher.
I would like to see his numbers. Is he really that much slower than Bubka? I don't know, does anyone have his speed?

Imagine if he did these things as well as bubka but still jumped the way he jumps after he left the ground.

I would imagine the same results. Lots of guys that are equal to Bubka in runway speed have never come close to 6.40 or 20'3.

Thanks KC keep the thoughts flowing.

[vaultman18]

What is the best attempt anyone has ever seen someone take at the 6.16 or higher? Video?

[KYLE ELLIS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ktmUzKgsS8

Steve Hooker 6.16 attempt.

[tsorenson]

Slightly better footage.

http://youtu.be/Xztv6ZbH4hA

[agapit]

Slightly better footage.

http://youtu.be/Xztv6ZbH4hA

That's nice attempts. Probably as good as LoJo's at 2001 US Indoor Championship at the same height. By the way havy "Russian" influence and yes I do not see left arm push here. I can see pole continues to bend and that is why his left arm is streigheninng, but to accelerate his swing and vertical COG (Center of Gravity) speed he has to pull and the sooner the better!

[golfdane]

Because the chest is driven through and up and in front of the top hand you should be able to swing just like on a high bar. And like how you do not have to pull to swing up on a high bar, you do not have to pull to swing up on the pole vault pole. You should think about pushing that pole up and driving it to vertical.

No, you do not HAVE to pull to swing up on a high bar or a pole, but the question is not about "HAVE to". The question is, can you speed up the inversion, and get into a straight vertical position faster? The pole does not constitute a high bar. First of all, the pole is angled differently to your body. One hand is lower than the other. Is there ANYTHING you can do with your lower hand, that enables your hips to rise faster?

http://www.stabhoch.com/pages/19920713_Bubka_611.html

Look closely on his left arm, just after his hips start to break and notice what it does as his hips rises. Now, his body is hindering us to see the pole, but other videos of Bubka shows, that the part of the pole between his hands seem to straighten out a bit. Apparently, is the lower hand pulling.