PoleVaultPower.com

Hey after all of this talk about petrov vs. ''power vault'' and the Oklahoma manifesto and the recent discussion regarding the trail leg, I began thinking of Brad Gebauer. A few years ago, my freshman year at Indiana, I jumped against Brad in my first outdoor big ten's. His hamstring was really messed up and he could barely get down the runway. Being a stupid freshman, I thought ''this is my chance to beat an 18 footer''. Not the case. Brad ended up jumping 5.15m or 5.25m from 5 lefts on a 15' pole limping down the runway. I recently dug up the video and thought you would like to see it and would love to see what you think of it and how it relates to the technical model that you have been describing as of late. check it:

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=lt-GYcrQD5U&rel=1&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//i.ytimg.com/vi/lt-GYcrQD5U/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskJUO14m0MBOldH8i7SRH_FP

The drive on bottom is pretty incredible and he absolutely smoked that bar hangin somewhere in the midst of 17'. It reminds me a lot of the video that you posted at one point of Buckingham where just as you think there's no way he's gonna make the bar, he just blows right over.

PS Brad - I hope you're cool with me posting a vid of you haha.

Yep. That is the jump I am talking about. That jump is almost a clone of Joe Dial's vault. Note that the takeoff is nearly free, not quite, but very close.

I'd like to see the video but it's been taken down. Thanks! Bubba

i think it's still there... check here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt-GYcrQD5U

OK, I need a little help with this. Conceptually I don't get it. But hey, I'm kinda dense so if anybody can clarify I'd really appreciate the effort.

VaulterBoy recently had a post discussing a study showing the height vs. speed ratio which pretty much states that speed in equals height out. And yet I have seen it and there are numerous posts here of people jumping very impressive heights from two steps, four steps, six steps, etc. Here is an example of a vaulter who was hurt running from 10 steps and smoking 17'. Obviously he wasn't running that fast so how is ha able to achieve this? How are people able to cap 14' poles from four steps and 15' poles from six steps? The 'speed in' equation doesn't fit here unless their acceleration is insane, but I don't think that's what's going on here.

Back to the video in question; Yes, his form is phenomenal, and he goes straight up the pole giving him tremendous height. But my issue is how he can even get on the end of that pole being injured from a short run. Even if it was a small pole it still seems improbable.

Maybe the jump off the ground is what accounts for the extra height. If you can jump off of the ground without sacrificing speed, your center of mass will already be elevated and rising. Also, you will already have a vertical component of velocity. However, can someone clarify if this is only breaking down your runway speed into a horizontal and vertical component, or if it is possible to jump without sacrificing horizontal speed.

fx wrote:is possible to jump without sacrificing horizontal speed.

That is what a long jumper tries to accomplish every jump. so the answer is yes.

kwhit3 wrote:
VaulterBoy recently had a post discussing a study showing the height vs. speed ratio which pretty much states that speed in equals height out. .

To a certain extent it does, because eventually you have to run faster to jump higher. But if you read through that post you will find evidence of Tim and others discrediting that formula. The simple fact that you can still add energy into the vault with angular momentum once of the ground kills the "speed in, energy up" hypothesis. And a lot of people jump high from shorter runs, i think because they can control what they do and when they do it. The only thing they lose from going to a shorter run is speed and maybe a few poles, but they jump at a better angle, time up their swing position and velocity, and ultimately do things better and more smoothly from a short run. The result- jumping pretty darn high from a shorter run. It also proves that you do NOT need to be on a certain pole to jump a certain hieght, just conserve and transfer your energy more efficiently. There is a 15' 175 pole that i use for warm ups for my long run, and i cannot jump more than 15' with it from that long run, and when i used to compete on it, my PR for that pole was 15'. Using that same pole when im having a good short run day now, holding at the same spot, i jump 16. Going up poles does not mean jumping higher, unless you can conserve and release the extra energy it takes get on the next pole, at the right time.

What would be a better question, and an interesting experiment, is how slowly can you run and still jump high?

I know a lot of you guys can probably jog into a plant and cap a 14 or 15 foot small pole. But take another person with decent ability running all out couldn't come close to even getting in the pit.

It's an interesting discussion because it means that speed could be a very minor factor in rolling a long pole into the pit. Whereas when I was coming up it was the ONLY factor. Guess I was just hanging out with the wrong people!

Speed on takeoff is all that really matters. Mids, penultimates, overstriding, understriding, short run, long run ... it's all foreplay.

By speed, I mean in whatever direction you're jumping - some angle between horizontal and vertical.

Maybe a Force Resistance Device should be placed under the takeoff point, to measure this "speed" that I'm referring to.

Kirk

The drive on bottom is pretty incredible and he absolutely smoked that bar hangin somewhere in the midst of 17'. It reminds me a lot of the video that you posted at one point of Buckingham where just as you think there's no way he's gonna make the bar, he just blows right over.

Just because the left arm is straight doesn't mean he is pushing with it. Everyone assumes that because the arm goes to a straight position that the vaulter pushes his arm out... even with Bubka when it has been clarified he was pulling in. The reason the arm straightens out is because of the bending of the pole. If the vaulter can pull in while the pole is bending away, then it will progress the swing. Try and swing with a pushed left arm... Just try and do a grass plant with a pushing left arm...

If the vaulter can pull in while the pole is bending away, then it will progress the swing.

Hmm ...

There's a lot of confusion regarding the word "pull" on this Advanced Technique forum (not just in this thread). I think what Agapit meant when he used the word "pull" in his Manifesto is not the normal English usage of the word.

I think he meant a "lateral pull", where the direction of the pull is similar to a gymnast inverting straight-bodied from a hang on the rings. The use of the lats (latissimus dorsi muscles) is the only part of this gymnastic move I'm referring to - not the straight-body part.

In weight-lifting, a common excercise is the "lat pulldown", wherein you lie on your back, reach over your head to grasp the weight, then pull it over your head to your waist. (This excercise is more often done with pulleys than with free weights, but it can be done with either. It can also be done standing - but not with free weights.) This movement is still not exactly the "pull" that he's talking about, because in a lat pulldown, you bend both elbows substantially. But if you do the lat pulldown with both elbows straight, that's much closer to it.

Of course, both the rings and the weights excercises don't take into account the gripping of a pole where the top arm is straight and the bottom arm is bent. Maybe if you can imagine taking a 3-foot piece of broken pole, attaching it to the weight over your head (while you're prone on a bench), holding the pole with your normal grips, then doing a lat pulldown - whilst emphasizing a straight top arm and bent bottom arm - that would simulate it much closer. In fact, don't just imagine this - try it!

In another post, I mentioned the FEEL of a highbar swing to an inverted position. In my experience, that simulates the "lat pull" most closely, and I used that excercise religiously - both for technique training as well as for conditioning.

In the 5.40 model, may I propose that "lat pull" would be a better name to call this movement?

By conditioning, I mean both mind and body conditioning. It's a combination of getting the body used to the movement, and at the same time putting the movement into your "muscle memory". Then, when you take off on a real jump and are about to swing, the movement will happen "automagically". You'll just do it without thinking, due to all your conditioning.

I've never tried to teach vaulters this action on the pole. It's much easier to teach it on the high bar. Even then, it's amazing how many "good" vaulters don't have the gymnastic strength/coordination to do this properly. No wonder they can't do it on the pole!

Agapit, please clarify your definition. I do not mean to put words into your mouth. I speak only from my own personal experience.

Kirk Bryde