jumping with or behind the pole ??

[vaulter870]

i know that personaly there are two distinct ways of jumping that stand out to me and they are the people that jump with the pole and the people that jump behind the pole. i think that it is better to be jumping behind the pole but i wanna hear some opinions if you dont know what i am talking about then think of it this way. people that jump with the pole tend to take off with a lower angle and not get a high bend out of the pole reguard less of brand. jumping behind the pole is when you achive a high takeoff and get a high bend out of the pole. these two differences seam to be all in the set up for the plant and the way in which the jumper leaves the ground. from what i have observed it seams that the people jumping with the pole have a harder time swinging and they cant move the pole well with their arms. i just want to know if anyone else sees this or if i am completely wrong here. any replies are appreciated.

[txpolevaulter_k25]

i used to jump with the pole and my pr was 12'6-13 and then i started to get my arms up high and really explode and stay behind the pole and my pr went up to 13'6 consistently and i am getting close to 14'

[powerplant42]

Stay behind the pole during your follow-through, then swing to the chord of the pole, then continue swinging. Staying behind the pole allows for additional energy input, and is essential to the Bubka/Petrov model of pole vaulting.

[ADTF Academy]

Umm your comment is incorrect. Staying behind the pole is not a factor in the petrov or swing style. Staying behind the pole is a must in the power style of vault you know big bottom arm to keep you away from the pole.


The problem is if your under and you get into the pole cord early you will have a low takeoff angle. If your taking off with a free takeoff then you can have an upspring takeoff and obtain and optimal takeoff. Please do not relate the two. Low takeoff is more a dictation of where you are taking off from (under or correct spot) If you are under your takeoff angle will be low on both styles. Plus staying away form the pole causes you to sink before you go up not sure the logic there.


Finally, why does everyone want this big bend. The more the pole bends the more energy it takes to unbend it the less that is available for the flyaway. Also the bigger the bend the faster it uncoils and the harder it is to cover the pole becasue you stay behind the pole to long so it just runs away from you. The bigger the bend is not always a good thing. If you stay away most likely don't think about covering the pole before it uncoils only a small percentage can.

[powerplant42]

How can you say that staying behind the pole(ie. loading the pole after efficient take-off) isn't a part of the Petrov model? This loads the pole AS the vaulter swings up, and energy can be put into the pole during all stages afterward. Look at Alan Launder's (Altius) post here:

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?=&p=82444

He is a HUGE promoter of the Petrov model.

[vaulter870]

i think that there may be some confusion in what i said earlier the point isa not to get a big bend or try to achive any bent i am talking about the way that the pole seams to react with the different set ups and takeoffs. and it seams that they either stay with the pole or behind it.not trying to stay behind the pole as to achive maximum bend cause that is not what i am trying to convay at all

[powerplant42]

Alright, maybe I didn't read your post well enough. You are right: People that jump with the pole do have a tougher time swinging up, as they are not in a good position for a long whip of their trail-leg. That can only be achieved with a correct take-off, plant, and follow-through. I completely agree. Thinking about it now, there are only three ways of jumping WITH the pole that hit me: Taking off under, hugging the pole, or swinging way too early. All of these are bad. (I've done each one of these before )

[ADTF Academy]

Once again the communication things is an issue as well as my mind thinking to fast.


When the pole bends who cares about the actually flexing pole. The important thing is the imaginary pole cord that is developed and every changing. This is the object that rotates into the pit. This is the object I refer to when I hear stay with the pole or away from it. Not the acutal bent pole but the imaginary pole cord.

Look at a straight pole what happens when you push away from it in the direction of the runway it stops rotating. The same is true with the imaginary pole cord. You push away from it pole rotation becomes tougher.

Now eating the pole if you stay with this imaginary pole cord should only happen on probably a 12' poles becasue they shouldn't bend very much as if they are a straight pole.

I can't find the photos Alan posted but you will see exactly what I am referring to. Some will say they are almost eating the pole I say she is in prime position to stay with the imaginary pole cord so she can rotate that pole easier and reach inversion easier.

If you straighten the bottom arm you are pushing your shoulders back down the runway and you row premature. (this is what we typically see from the users on this site. Elites are better and don't show this, but this site is for beginners not elites keep that in mind please). This causes the imaginary pole cord to runaway from them and a crappy jump.

The biggest challenge with all these converstions if they are one aspect of the vault that are only dectated by what you did before it. So we can talk about this but if your plant and takeoff are off this segment will be off.

[SKOT]

I can't find the photos Alan posted but you will see exactly what I am referring to. Some will say they are almost eating the pole I say she is in prime position to stay with the imaginary pole cord so she can rotate that pole easier and reach inversion easier.

I think this is what you were looking for.

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/vie ... 63&start=0

Can someone please explain a little better these two ideas of jumping with the pole and jumping behind the pole. As I see it, the only way one can jump "behind the pole" is to take off out and they do not have their top hand extended directly above their head. If this is the case, i feel like they are in for one heck of a dangerous ride!

[ADTF Academy]

Thank you SKOT


Yes this is what I am referring to. If you look the pole does not bend that much so it looks like she is eating the pole. However if you draw an imaginary line from the top hand to the box then she is staying in line with that. I don't care about the bend of the pole I can about the imaginary line. Staying behind it would mean pushing way form the pole so the athelte moves behind this imaginary line in the direction of the runway.

[powerplant42]

Yet all extraordinary vaulters stay BEHIND the chord of the pole until AFTER the follow through. All that is meant by staying behind the pole is that you should not swing as soon as you take-off, but should continue to push the pole. If your stomach, during the time you should be in the 'C' position, is AT the chord of the pole, you're pretty much screwed.