"Coaches Mark" "MID" Big Pole

[dj]

merry christmas too all

and to all... run fast ....hold high...


dj

[Carolina21]

Just to throw in my 2 cents. Chase, Spencer, and I had a chance to work with DJ and Rick at the SC winter camp, and I really hope everyone takes this information to heart. There are people who will pay out the nose to get this type of info on running technique. Running IS pushing!! I have had the chance to listen to some of the top biomechanic experts /sprint coaches and one thing they all say that is the same about sprinting is you must have a foot strike that allows you to push on the ground to generate force rather than pull. The closer you are to this position the faster you will be.
I would also like to say, make sure you don't misuse the chart. If you want to jump 18' by all means DO NOT simply focus on getting your mid to 53'. Yes you will need a mid somewhere in that area to jump 18'0, but it has to be done with great running mechanics. If you're not creating enough force/speed to hit that mid you are far better to hit a realistic mid and turn it on into the box and be in a sprint position that will allow maximum force into the takeoff rather than to hit a 53' mid and be all out of position as you try to take off. By the same thought, if you are hitting a mid out at 53' or 54' and not jumping 18-19' then you probably need to take a look at your technique both on the runway and the pole because something doesn't add up but that is GOOD!! because if you hit every number on the chart then you are already maxed out, but if something doesn't add up it means you can jump HIGHER when you fix it!! .
Lastly, and this goes with the above paragraph, as DJ says this chart is an average (most are very very close to this) but still an average. Which means you can hit a 51' mid and still jump 17'6' and so on. To do this you probably have some pretty good form on the pole, but mainly it means don't worry when you run with good mechanics and your run moves in a foot, that is almost always what happens the first few times, but then as the correct mechanics become the norm over the course of several weeks or months your run will actually move back further than before because you are running with the most effective technic. When I was vaulting this last weekend my mid was hitting 50'6 to 51' from my mid length run, and is usually at 52' but since I was running with somewhat better mechanics (always a work in progress) my speed actually improved and I was jumping higher on bigger poles than when I hit 52' with poorer mechanics.

P.S. DJ feel free to come knock some sense into me whenever I start drifting away from good running mechanics, we all need a reminder from time to time.

[wakesurfvault]

All you guys are telling us to improve our sprint mechanics (and of course I agree we should all work on it), but how do we do that? What types of drills, etc. are there that could help improve mechanics?

[gtc]

Definately be careful about forcing your mid out! to try and jump a certain height. The chart can be out jumped. I jumped over 18+ well over a hundred times with a mid around 49-6 and currently am working with a H.S.er who is jumping over 16 with a 45 mid

[Bubba PV]

I agree and can relate with you. That was my problem too as I hit the top of my athletic ability. I was about 49'6 to 50' for my PR 18' 1" (1978). I physically couldn't cover more ground even if I reached but I had big push offs. But in general, I think there a lot of kids who run the middle of their runs too fast and then massively decelerate to take off. For my kids, and me as a 50+ year old vaulter, the list changed that. Now we accelerate no matter what the run. Take care. Bubba

[dj]

good morning all

i hope our Christmases were wonderful...

by the way there is an article about the mid on tim warner’s site that i wrote several years ago... i don't want to copy and paste it plus tim has some great stuff for all...

his shot put sequence of adam is super..

www.advantageathletics.com

yes i have found it is best to start moving the grip up before you start moving the "MID" back. that puts you closer on the "MID" to grip ratio… just make sure the take off is in a decent spot and the vaulter is not "backing off.â€Â

[dj]

Wakesurfvault wrote

All you guys are telling us to improve our sprint mechanics (and of course I agree we should all work on it), but how do we do that? What types of drills, etc. are there that could help improve mechanics?

You can find some answers here:

http://www.willamettestriders.com/warmups.html

and on these pvp threads…

training/dj/speed
training - getting faster

I have used this workout with the technique rick emphasis to help athletes run faster.

dj

[baggettpv]

DJ thanks for the info I got at SC. It helped me correct one of my 16 footers to not stride on the last 2. also gave the others a place to reference the pole position going into the plant ie L, R, TO. Very nice keys to learning.
Also, to all others that don't know how to teach running mechanics, first off you must set up the activities in a Psychomotor learning position. That is the numbers have to be high (weekly) and the performance must be specific. If you look on the web for Psychomotor Learning Techniques there are many sites that outline the stages and goals of this type of learning. I have broken down the biomechanical positions into a warmup routine that teaches the basic skills of good running mechanics (the site DJ gave previously). The athletes do 3 - 6 passes (of 20 contacts) of each activity as warmups each day. At the end of the week the athletes have performed 3k to 6k of each activity (w/ low intensity). More than enough to maximize the learning. Each activity, if you notice, builds on the previous activity in complexity and order. Last year at Reno I presented this warm up on the main stage right after Toby and Tim talked about the Olympics.....I recieved a request from one coach in Texas for more info. Also, when teaching the skills of PV I still use this model of learning to set up the progress and goals of each practice cycle be it a micro, mini or macro cycle. Goal Setting is still going to be the key.
exa:
At the end of the practice session (date) the athlete will be able to perform (an activity) 6 of 8 times profficiently. (higher level Psychomotor Level)
At the end of the practice session (date) the athlete will have had the opportunity to perform (an activity) closely to correct 20 times and have reinforced previously learned activities while preparing to.
I learned this teaching technique and goal setting procedure in Industrial Education 436 at Central Wa. University while becoming an industrial Arts teacher. Really carries over to sports technique!
My recomendations to all:
Get a Task Ananlysis model of the vault (Bell, Attig, Johnson, me, DJ, ect)
Apply a goal setting procedure to the model based on equipment and time you have with the athletes.
Move through the model as fast as the learners learn, no shortcuts. 4 year plan.
Integrate an athletic training model (Tudor Bompa, "Periodization of Training") to your activities
Use goal setting as your guidelines for workout design.
Be creative to have fun.
Evaluate where you are and where you want to be.
Always steal ideas from other coaches. Remember you can't learn anything unless you listen to them. The good ones always listen to you tell them what you are doing. Thats what makes them good.....listen to them.

Thanks DJ, you let out my secret....arggggg

Rick Baggett

[munsoned]

The chart is amazing. I was only a 16'6 vaulter, 7500pt decathlete. I knew nothing of the mid chart from dj etc. I have spent the last month or so using it with the kids I coach, it is amazing. someone said once you start using it you will not know how you did without it, I agree

[Carolina Extreme]

DJ and Rick, Thanks for helping with our SC camp, it went great and you guys were awesome! We saw a lot of light come on between vaulters ears. Each of us coaches came away with good stuff as well to use with our athletes. This is what makes the polevault community great. We open our minds and absorb all that we can to not only better ourselves, but to better our athletes and the event.

If anyone is wondering why would I bring in DJ and Rick when I could have done the camp on my own, and saved a lot of expenses. I invited these guys for primarily several reasons: First, to give vaulters a chance to work with someone other than me. By bringing them here athletes do not have to travel across the country to get their help. I should qualify "someone other than me" as someone who will make them better and not screw them up. LOL Most of what DJ, Rick and I teach are the same... we just say things differently, by going in and out of different doors to get the same results. And if that is what makes it click for athletes, I am all for it.

Secondly, I invited them so that Chase, Chris and Spencer would be able to spend time with them and hone their skills. Again, I am not a selfish coach and I want what is best for the athletes. They all needed work setting up their run, getting into the rhythm, and their is no better way to have their undivided attention than to bring in an "Out-of-Town Expert". And it worked!

I brought them in also because, when you think you know it all you are dead. Not in the six feet under way. You are dead in that you are not going to get any better. You shut off your learning and your athletes will not progress as well as they could have. Everytime I acquire knowledge from other coaches an interesting thing happens... my vaulters get better.

DJ and I speak often, and I get a better grasp of his view of the run and takeoff with each conversation. DJ's chart works if used in the correct way. Use it as a reference and you will improve. To disregard it or suggest that it will not work for you is nonsense. (reread Chris Steddum's "Carolina21" comments on using the chart above.) But for DJ's chart/numbers to work you have to give it a honest effort. Chase, Chris and Spencer saw immediate positive results.

Rick has an incredible mind and has given so much of himself and his time to put it all together. He has the whole package and can make things so simple some times in an incredibly complex event. He showed Chase something simple to help him get more out of the top, it was another way of doing what we were already doing. But it got great results when Chase jumped yesterday in practice. It is always a pleasure stealing from you guys. Let's do it again!

Becca, forgive me if this should have been under our SC camp thread. I thought most of my thoughts fit well here as well.

Rusty Shealy

[cormanac]

I have been using the chart for the past few years and it has helped - but situations have arised. My girls are short ~5 to 5'2" in height - so the measurements had to be changed due to stride length and their ultimate hand held height (simple physics and trig). Also, the chart does not take in effect wind and other factors. It is great at giving estimates, but there are lots of factors with every jump - hence we coaches still have a job. It has taken a couple of years to get the right understanding of it, but it works well now. Just need to really understand the mathmatics of the chart and things can be modified upon conditions.
As for the run versus jump - the vault is both a jumping event and gymnastics, but 99.99% of all jumps fail at the end because of something done wrong in the beginning. Perfect practice makes habit, and yes it will always be easier said than done.

[dbwsportz]

DJ,

What would be the preferred speed for the vaulter to obtain as they hit the mid mark? I'm thinking in terms of estimating a percentage of that vaulters maximum controlled speed down the runway when they hit the mid.