The Swing

[volteur]

If i stand in a position on my right foot with the pole just prior to the final stage of the plant, ie left arm mostly extended but in an isometric position and the right hand say next to the right temple, holding near the top of a bigger pole, and then i let go of my right hand and leave the left as it is, the pole shifts vertically very quickly as it levers over the left hand position.

I think this pivoting force gives quite a bit of upward momentum at takeoff with the upper body if one can go with it.

[vault3rb0y]

[quote="golfdane"][/quote]
Thanks Golfdane, i wasn't sure, so i figured it was worth throwing out there.

[agapit]

Just because the bottom arm is not straight doesn't mean it can't be used for the initial absorption.

During the plant both arms are planted as high as possible correct.

But according to most people here the plant and take off should be what FREE or in some a PREJUMP.

Well, actually we observe that the top arm is not completely straight at the take-off (end of jump off the ground) and straitens in the air. With a free take-off or even more so with a pre jump it does not have to be straight since the impact is not on the ground.

Observe with who or what you teach?

So you teach not to have the arm completely straight at take-off..... Or that it is ok if it is not completely straight.

I think this is a can of worms we don't want young vaulters thinking about or worrying about. If the plant is up would you agree that is better than the plant not being up.

Lively discussion!

You can observe this with most top vaulter who uses a free take-off method including Bubka, Isimbayeva, Tarasov, Johnson, etc, etc, etc.

I teach vaulters to complete the take-off before resistance from the pole (free take-off). That produces the biggest pole angle and the arms straighten at the right time after the take-off (jump off the ground) is complete.

If your arms are dead straight at the moment of impact and your foot is on the ground I feel sorry for your shoulders. Think about it.

Cheers!

[ADTF Academy]

But wouldn't that mean the jumper was under and they deserve to get a jolt for not listening.

and therefore as you put it should repent for wanting and taking off under.


I agree 100% with finishing to extension of the top arm as you finish your final stride, but dealing with and seeing the number of ugly jumps I see a year on the lower levels teaching to get the hands up early is safer than teaching them to be up at exactly the right time and gain that extra ounce of energy creation. If they are late which many usually are and the pole does strike the back of the box before they extend the top arm because they reached to get under this is never a good situation to be in.

[agapit]

But wouldn't that mean the jumper was under and they deserve to get a jolt for not listening.

and therefore as you put it should repent for wanting and taking off under.


I agree 100% with finishing to extension of the top arm as you finish your final stride, but dealing with and seeing the number of ugly jumps I see a year on the lower levels teaching to get the hands up early is safer than teaching them to be up at exactly the right time and gain that extra ounce of energy creation. If they are late which many usually are and the pole does strike the back of the box before they extend the top arm because they reached to get under this is never a good situation to be in.

I would refer you to one of my last posts on the "Free Take-off???" You can see that the arms are not fully extended even after Bubka leaves the ground.

I have beginners doing this. It can be taught at any level.

[captainfalcon43]

So, the natural swing ends at the pole, and the inversion (the firing of the muscles... pics, hip flexor, etc.) begins at the pole. If we attempt to begin the inversion and fire the pecs and hip flexor right at the instant of takeoff (assuming we had a free takeoff), would this give the continuous swing we need and continue the swing above the COG? So the swing is just a completion or effect of a free takeoff? And then muscle contractions bring the vaulter to vertical? What exactly should the vaulter concentrate on concerning their body before takeoff and immediately afterwards?

Video would help a lot...

Remember, June 27 and 28

[powerplant42]

I must disagree with not helping the swing. Just coming out of a pre-stretch is powerful, but CONTRACTING out of one creates some pretty insane forces...

[captainfalcon43]

I mean, should the vaulter contract the muscles for inversion right at the instant of takeoff to get the COG up after the swing. Should the swing even be thought about, or should someone concentrate on what happens after the chord of the pole is reached because the swing to the chord is automatic, and if an inversion is attempted at takeoff, then the muscles will be acting at the pole to get the inversion.

[AVC Coach]

mean, should the vaulter contract the muscles for inversion right at the instant of takeoff to get the COG up after the swing. Should the swing even be thought about, or should someone concentrate on what happens after the chord of the pole is reached because the swing to the chord is automatic, and if an inversion is attempted at takeoff, then the muscles will be acting at the pole to get the inversion.

The swing should start immediately after the take-off is finished. The amount of time it takes a vaulter to finish his/her take-off determines when the swing actually starts. This is something that can be physically improved through training.

[agapit]

So, the natural swing ends at the pole, and the inversion (the firing of the muscles... pics, hip flexor, etc.) begins at the pole. If we attempt to begin the inversion and fire the pecs and hip flexor right at the instant of takeoff (assuming we had a free takeoff), would this give the continuous swing we need and continue the swing above the COG? So the swing is just a completion or effect of a free takeoff? And then muscle contractions bring the vaulter to vertical? What exactly should the vaulter concentrate on concerning their body before takeoff and immediately afterwards?

Video would help a lot...

Remember, June 27 and 28

This is an excellent point, that the swing is a result of the correct take-off. As a result the quality of the swing is determined by the take-off or any take-off for that matter (while on the ground). One cannot improve or speed up the natural swing after the take-off. The post take-off pre stretch and the inertia forces are moving the lower part of the body around the top grip. The only way to speed it up is to accelerate this rotation with some actions. Well if you think very hard, you would see that the only action that does not shorten the rotation around the top hand is the pull of the bottom arm. I know the concept difficult to visualize, but that is what mechanics suggests and some vaulter were able to do.

The left arm should begin this action as soon as possible. Well it becomes possible when the center of gravity of the vaulter crosses the vertical line drawn from the top grip or approximately when the swinging foot passes this same line. Obviously, this is a very short time and physiologically (speed of the neuron-signal as it travels in the body) a vaulter would not be able to switch, for example, from pushing the pole to pulling it. Therefore, when preparing for this action the vaulter prepares to pull as soon as possible after the completion of the take-off. What practice does, it helps to determine the correct sequence of this action as it relates to the completion of the jump.

[agapit]

I must disagree with not helping the swing. Just coming out of a pre-stretch is powerful, but CONTRACTING out of one creates some pretty insane forces...

That is why at the end of the Manifesto, I mention the psychological Horror of this model that the vaulter has to overcome.

Cheers!

P.S. you are getting close!

[baggettpv]

The Horror does not come from the model, it comes from watching the many different, unsafe, inefficient, illogical models presently being used in America.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC