Free Take-off???

[dj]

The “MIDâ€

[dj]

hey russ

about the only thing i see is what petrov aludes to in the below Quote..

he seems to be leaning back slightly at the takeoff.. if he stands at the box with his 13-6 or 14 takeoff and leans back 8" it will move the butt plug further away from the back of the box.. giving the body a chance to "sink" before contact.. if he creates a positive, "past the vertical plain" at the takeoff it might solve any takeoff problems.. moving him smoothly and cleanly onto the pole......i like the "free takeoff" and that is where petrov said we needed to "reach" even higher and more forward.. as opposed to "clutching" or pulling in and sinking..

he is a good athlete and can "attack" and create a great takeoff.. that will allow him to start holding higher and jumping much higher..

[quote]Petrov
The efficiency of this phase depends on the vaulter’s skill in the drop/take-off junction, on whether he is able to begin the push before the pole is set against the box. The pole must be smoothly transferred to the plant position when the vertical take-off plane is crossed. The technically correct movement demonstrates the right acceleration of the pole by the moment the vaulter reaches the vertical take-off plane.[/quote]

dj

[volteur]

dj

you really need to calm down. The MID as you have agreed is not an absolute. It also doesn't apply to everyone. I don't nor do any coaches i know of use it including Parnov who has coached three 6m vaulters now.

Develop your 'eye' it is the main tool you have with your coaching and is the only thing that will take you to a higher understanding of the vault, towards where agapit sees things from.

[agapit]

Re: Markov. It is Markov's intention to pre-jump. Because Markov pre-jumps he has continuity issues later in the vault. Awesome athlete though.

Free-takeoff - where full postural extension and optimal forward momentum are achieved at the point of take-off whilst minimising resistance being met from the pole.

Pre-jump - where the vertical component of the takeoff is over-emphasised relative to it's horizontal component, however, in the other aspects, it 'can' be the same as the free-takoff.

Markov has issues after the take-off because he is resisting with left arm and because of that he gets in the "pocket" and shoots out from there. If he used the dynamic inversion without left arm resistance he would be a WR contender in my opinion. The same issue is with Jeff Hartwing, Maxim Tarasov, Rodion Gataulin and many other free take-offers.

As to pre-jump vs. free take-off, as I said before they are basically the same. When instructing a vaulter to improve the take-off, it is maybe better to use pre-jump term to make the desired intention clearer. Well if you are focused on minimizing the time between the jump –off the ground and inversion (competitive vault) free jump describes better that intention. In other words if you are focused on the take-off training – pre jump, if you are focused on the vault s a whole - free take-off.

[agapit]

To all guys and girls out there, just a reminder. Speed is a function of stride length and turnover rate. Stride length can be improved greatly, turnover? About 5% (based on research). So now if speed is really gonna be based on stride length then what to do for this? That is the question it is. The mid mark is based on what? An efficient run or not? DJ what do you do for this? Just let them get stronger with poor running mechanics? My speed development procedures are available and widely copied.
I am just trying to make it real compared to what? 24 years of teaching......

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

Excellent point coach!

[baggettpv]

Thanks Roman....Someone out there is listening.
If anyone needs to see how I develop running mechanics in young people then my DVD is available For $20....Order it from me not winning-coach.com. Just email me at baggettpv@aol.com. And remember if you coach the kids in the same model then they should all look similar in their jumps.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[tennpolevault]

Is this a free take-off ??? Just kidding. This video just goes to show you what a freak of nature Lojo was. That take-off is about 11 feet gripping about 16' 4". Many people overlook the fact that flexibility was probably his most incredible physical asset. Not to diminish his other athletic feats like nearly dunking from the free throw line or the such but he could plant anywhere and clear 19 feet, even as a sophomore. Check out the runway, 3 different surfaces to run on in one attempt. Thought I would pull this one from my new collection of TN pole vault archives.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S8iYq208Vm0

[agapit]

Is this a free take-off ??? Just kidding. This video just goes to show you what a freak of nature Lojo was. That take-off is about 11 feet gripping about 16' 4". Many people overlook the fact that flexibility was probably his most incredible physical asset. Not to diminish his other athletic feats like nearly dunking from the free throw line or the such but he could plant anywhere and clear 19 feet, even as a sophomore. Check out the runway, 3 different surfaces to run on in one attempt. Thought I would pull this one from my new collection of TN pole vault archives.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S8iYq208Vm0

I remember sitting in Reno (Jan 94) in a hotel room and watching this video with Petrov. We were horified at the power and the desire. The pole began to bend before the left foot was on the ground. Wow!

We though that a human could sustain this for about a year or two and then no back, hamsitring, sholder, who knows what elese.

Petrov ask me to translate to Lawrence that he has a grat potencial but he needs to rethink his model. He suggested that Lawrence would need to focus on the pole vault and perhaps abandon the decathlon. Well I remember coach Web got furious about that comment by Petrov.

Do you suggest that this is a good way to jump? If yes ask Larence what he thinks.

P.S. I must add to this incase this is a clever attempt to discount 6 consecutive National Champinoships (as a team), American Indoor record, silver Olympic medal, silver at the world indoor and world indoor Champion. In 2001 in Atlanta (after winning National Champs with American Record not home meet) Larence had 3 attempts at 6.16m (20'2 1/2") that looked better that 19'6" on this video. I must add that this was done in a dome with a higher air pressure (ask DJ he will tell you that this is the same as head wind). Five days later he won World Indoor Champinship. The only regret we both have is that we interupted our work for two years 1998-99.

[volteur]

The only regret we both have is that we interrupted our work for two years 1998-99.

whoa he has some talent! Agapit, when did you start working with him? He could have been the one! You say 98/99 training was interrupted? Is this what got in the road of something massive or? How did Lojo go with understanding your concepts and applying them?

I've got BTB1 - can we work off that edition?

[agapit]

The only regret we both have is that we interrupted our work for two years 1998-99.

whoa he has some talent! Agapit, when did you start working with him? He could have been the one! You say 98/99 training was interrupted? Is this what got in the road of something massive or? How did Lojo go with understanding your concepts and applying them?

I've got BTB1 - can we work off that edition?

I think we are on the same page 96.5%. We started working together September of 1996.

Get BTB2. It is 58.9 times better. You cannot even compare the 2. I bought one and than Alan signed me one as well. The more I read the more I like it. Nice pictures too...

[tennpolevault]

"Do you suggest that this is a good way to jump? If yes ask Larence what he thinks. "

I surely don't think anybody was trying to teach Lawrence to jump this way. Don't know why you would be defensive toward me anyway. I never coached him, I just trained with him a couple of years. I am damn sure they were trying to free up his take-of the whole time his was in college. I am pretty sure his take-off got outside of 13 to 13'6" toward the later years of his collegiate career. I shall not get caught up in the ongoing battle of egos I sense in parts of this thread.

I just thought it was an amazing display of youthful athleticism. Kind of like a kid who does not yet know how strong he is. Its really none of my business how or who coached him and who did a better job. I think he did amazing things with both coaches. Many people thought he should have broken the world record. I don't know if he could have or not. Obviously injuries played a big part. Its also tough to change coaches and theories mid stream regardless of who is more correct. Its scary to think what he and Tim would have done if they had trained cohesively together for 8 years and stayed healthy. I think he could have progressed to 6.16 under both systems/theories if he stayed healthy.

[agapit]

"Do you suggest that this is a good way to jump? If yes ask Larence what he thinks. "

I surely don't think anybody was trying to teach Lawrence to jump this way. Don't know why you would be defensive toward me anyway. I never coached him, I just trained with him a couple of years. I am damn sure they were trying to free up his take-of the whole time his was in college. I am pretty sure his take-off got outside of 13 to 13'6" toward the later years of his collegiate career. I shall not get caught up in the ongoing battle of egos I sense in parts of this thread.

I just thought it was an amazing display of youthful athleticism. Kind of like a kid who does not yet know how strong he is. Its really none of my business how or who coached him and who did a better job. I think he did amazing things with both coaches. Many people thought he should have broken the world record. I don't know if he could have or not. Obviously injuries played a big part. Its also tough to change coaches and theories mid stream. Its scary to think what he and Tim would have done if they had trained cohesively together for 8 years and stayed healthy. I think he could have progressed to 6.16 under both systems/theories if he stayed healthy.

Sorry, I do not know who you are. I am not defensive at all. I am just having fun after hard day at work. I agree that there are many ways to skin a cat and in no way I have or ever would discount anyone’s work. It is too hard to be there in the field every day. I think coach B and I have a friendly relationship. I have never said anything negative about his work.
I think Lo and Tim were together in the same pit for 8 years. The Mack went …….!..?

The vaulters are the one big family. You must know this. We could at times be Ahols but there is a mutual respect, at least I think so.

Cheers!