Pole Vault Manifesto
again good stuff, i can't believe you are 18 (no patronising intended)
With a pole angle of 18 to 20 degrees as being the norm for flexible poling is there some reason you quoted 30 degrees which is the angle for stiff poling?
You mention swing speed a lot and i sense you place importance on it. The trick is, if one takes the 6.40 model which i have just been looking at as the truth, doesn't actually exist. After the free takeoff is completed all that remains is the pull and push phase. During the pull the leg comes through as it is connected to the hip which does something important right then to assist in the inversion. It acts as a counterbalance to the arm i believe. If the arm isn;t coming through then i guess one would feel the need to swing the leg instead.
If the ideal angle of takeoff is 18-20 degrees then the pole vault is actually a lower takeoff angle than long jump and similar to triple jump. If you have seen a triple jumper during the hop phase they still gain quite a bit of height. Since the hop and step phases have the purpose of maintaing momentum as well as gaining height in the jump for distance, the event still has more horizontal motion than the long jump. Since pole vault is a similar angle to triple jump it therefore is the type of takeoff to allow for some extra forward momentum.
This momentum is what has been transferred from the runup and i guess is the vital factor as it contains the energy for the vault. Any loss of this counter productive.
Also the main force acting on the body during the pull-inversion-push is gravity and as stated many times before by everyone, we want to minimise the effect of this gravity so why head further up if you only have to come further down?
With a pole angle of 18 to 20 degrees as being the norm for flexible poling is there some reason you quoted 30 degrees which is the angle for stiff poling?
You mention swing speed a lot and i sense you place importance on it. The trick is, if one takes the 6.40 model which i have just been looking at as the truth, doesn't actually exist. After the free takeoff is completed all that remains is the pull and push phase. During the pull the leg comes through as it is connected to the hip which does something important right then to assist in the inversion. It acts as a counterbalance to the arm i believe. If the arm isn;t coming through then i guess one would feel the need to swing the leg instead.
If the ideal angle of takeoff is 18-20 degrees then the pole vault is actually a lower takeoff angle than long jump and similar to triple jump. If you have seen a triple jumper during the hop phase they still gain quite a bit of height. Since the hop and step phases have the purpose of maintaing momentum as well as gaining height in the jump for distance, the event still has more horizontal motion than the long jump. Since pole vault is a similar angle to triple jump it therefore is the type of takeoff to allow for some extra forward momentum.
This momentum is what has been transferred from the runup and i guess is the vital factor as it contains the energy for the vault. Any loss of this counter productive.
Also the main force acting on the body during the pull-inversion-push is gravity and as stated many times before by everyone, we want to minimise the effect of this gravity so why head further up if you only have to come further down?
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altius
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"Firstly, i could not find where Bubka refers to a pre-jump in the Jamaica interview, he does refer to a free-takeoff though."
Pages 242,243,244 clarify that. Perhaps someone else has the time to post the relevant quotes/pages or chapter. I am not doing it again.
Pages 242,243,244 clarify that. Perhaps someone else has the time to post the relevant quotes/pages or chapter. I am not doing it again.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
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altius
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Volteur - Wendy Young yes - but not Matt - we only have one photo of him - an interesting one because it shows him fully inverted - on page 86. He jumped 5.30 in 95 to beat Budgie for our Junior championship but broke his ankle early in 96, so he was not a factor in the WJs of that year when Budgie won. The lad I was referring to was Patrick Jesser, who jumped 5.40 in 2000.
However I mentioned them because I believe that both youngsters used a pre jump take off as the photos should confirm. It is easy to discuss these issues but not so easy to implement them.
The recent discussion - heated though it may have been - has been worth it for me because of that one sentence of djs about treating the inversion just as if you were swinging on a moving high bar, for it supports how I tried to teach that element of technique.
However I mentioned them because I believe that both youngsters used a pre jump take off as the photos should confirm. It is easy to discuss these issues but not so easy to implement them.
The recent discussion - heated though it may have been - has been worth it for me because of that one sentence of djs about treating the inversion just as if you were swinging on a moving high bar, for it supports how I tried to teach that element of technique.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
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master
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(another post for dj by master)
hey john
this is one of the best clips i could find of dave roberts and a free takeoff.. of course he "clutched" the arms and lost the benefit and actually may have been out too much.. a little "jolt" into the box... also these poles were not as forgiving than the later george moore pacer III models..
post if you can.. under manifesto..
thank you
dj
hey john
this is one of the best clips i could find of dave roberts and a free takeoff.. of course he "clutched" the arms and lost the benefit and actually may have been out too much.. a little "jolt" into the box... also these poles were not as forgiving than the later george moore pacer III models..
post if you can.. under manifesto..
thank you
dj
altius wrote:"Firstly, i could not find where Bubka refers to a pre-jump in the Jamaica interview, he does refer to a free-takeoff though."
Pages 242,243,244 clarify that. Perhaps someone else has the time to post the relevant quotes/pages or chapter. I am not doing it again.
I only have BTB1 but i do have the interview in full and i'm not sure what leap you have made to assume he is talking about the pre-jump
(i still don't really know what it is). I mean i can see it but i am wondering about what the intention is at takeoff with pre-jump.
Could you explain what the intention is, what the direction of the pre-jump is and what pole angle are you looking at with a pre-jump?
thanks
ps that takeoff by dave Roberts is way to far out and he also held back from committing to the takeoff. It's a terrible jump, that 'jolt' is massive and you guys have used it as a poster jump for the pre-jump?
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altius
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"i do have the interview in full". I somehow doubt that - like others before you, you have fallen into to the trap of believing that the transcript of the Jamaica presentation was a complete and accurate record. I can assure you it was not. But again page 243 tells the real story. Still I suppose you could read that and still go on disbelieving what I have stated there. I suggest that you find someone whose ideas you respect ,Steve Rippon for example or even Petrov, and debate this issue with them.
You seem to have plenty of time for this Volteur - I really do not. I must finish the rewrite of my first book "Play Practice, a games approach to teaching sport". The vault has only ever been a hobby for me, my real professional interest lies in the area of teaching and coaching sport, especially ball games, so if you dont hear much from me you will know why.
You seem to have plenty of time for this Volteur - I really do not. I must finish the rewrite of my first book "Play Practice, a games approach to teaching sport". The vault has only ever been a hobby for me, my real professional interest lies in the area of teaching and coaching sport, especially ball games, so if you dont hear much from me you will know why.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden
http://www.polevaulteducation.org/Bubka_Interview.html
"The free take off is a very short period of time, we can say no more than hundreds of a second, going from the end of the take off and the moment in which the tip of the pole reaches the end of the box."
Alan has (I believe he has done so extensively) stated, that "pre-jump" is a term he himself has come up with, that best describes what Bubka is talking about. The toes leaving the ground just prior (however small that might be in cm's or hundreths of a second) to the tip of the pole hitting the back of the box.
"The free take off is a very short period of time, we can say no more than hundreds of a second, going from the end of the take off and the moment in which the tip of the pole reaches the end of the box."
Alan has (I believe he has done so extensively) stated, that "pre-jump" is a term he himself has come up with, that best describes what Bubka is talking about. The toes leaving the ground just prior (however small that might be in cm's or hundreths of a second) to the tip of the pole hitting the back of the box.
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