"Coaches Mark" "MID" Big Pole

[lonestar]

That is like the coolest thing ever. But i know what you mean. I think the idea of DJ's chart as being perfect and the only one to use and nothing else works approach or feel kinda gets to me

lol - welcome to the world of DJ!

I remember DJ telling me a story a few years back about how when he was coaching Tully, Mike refused to believe his step was hitting in a certain spot. Finally, DJ got some powdered chalk and sprinkled it on the runway so it would leave a footprint when Tully took off. He couldn't refute the evidence.

Annoying as it may be though, with the correct application of it, his chart works. The key is in how you apply it!

[Mecham]

Okay, the chart works, from what i have heard. That doesnt mean that everything else is wrong, lol i hate debate.

I dont want to or mean to say Im right, your wrong. but it doesnt go the other way around either. There are many ways to go about mastering the run

[wacky274]

I am not taking sides here as to the accuracy of the chart, i have not tested it, i have not studied how it came to be, and thus cannot make a decision, but i can make a statement about the what maybe you think and what dj is saying, or to some degree may believe...

Though there may be more than one way to master the run, i believe (i have no gurantee of this) what dj would respond is that though there may be more than one way, each will lead to the end result of matching that given chart within reason...

[VTechVaulter]

the mid chart is a nice theory, but i for a fact know it will not line up for everyone, including some elites. Also, mids are a great idea, although i agree 4 is not as accurate at 6. it has nothing to do with mechanics of the run. some days youll just be faster, somedays slower. and sometimes youll stretch or cut, the mid lets you know.

very simply put
if your in on the mid, and in on your take off, back your step out
if your out and out move in
in your in and out, your cutting to hard, back the step out
if your out and in, your reaching past your mark, move in

no other tool can give you such definite fixes, unless you just want to eyeball everything.

[maximus]

I want to get in on this because if you haven't seriously taken the time to study DJ's chart then you shouldn't knock it. The chart is irrefutable because it accomodates every possible velocity, so the key to it is understanding the tempo and HOW to run the approach. A fast run that is inefficient is not as good as an efficient run that may be slightly slower, the beauty of the chart is that if you follow it to the letter, you will have success. VTVaulter posted his analysis and it isn't wrong, but it is what we have been doing in the vault for decades and the runway is much more complex than "move back" or "move up".

If you have your doubts about the chart then you need to research it and study it because you will find that it is air tight once you are able to wrap your head around it. Once you do that, you need to commit to using it every day, for every vault and don't look back. After about a month you will not know how you did without it. I've found that when most people think that it is wrong is when they try to use it and they see that their run doesn't match up, or they find out that they can't carry the mid that they think they should because the chart tells them that they aren't fast enough, then they get offended and say it is wrong. The sad thing is that if they would just swallow their manhood and follow the chart they would jump higher and eventually be at the mid they think they should be as their run gets better.

[Mecham]

If you have your doubts about the chart then you need to research it and study it because you will find that it is air tight once you are able to wrap your head around it.

EXACTLY what i wanted someone to say!
If you have your doubts about the (insert pole vault term here) then you need to research it and study it to see if it works.

If you have your doubts about the "free-takeoff" then you need to research it and study it to see if it works.

If you have your doubts about the "6.40 model" then you need to research it and study it to see if it works.

If you have your doubts about the "chart" then you need to research it and study it to see if it works.

If you have your doubts about the "tuck and shoot" then you need to research it and study it to see if it works.

If you have your doubts about the "ANYTHING in the vault" then you need to research it and study it to see if it works.


The only reason why i have been arguing this topic is so that someone would say that incredible sentance. I hear disagreements about lots of things on the board, that some people have never even tried. I haven't tried DJ's chart yet. but i am studying it at practice and am going to try it. All i am trying to say is, take in as much as you can here, apply it to your vault and see which one makes most sense, works best, and maybe even compare it to the greatest vaulter in history to see if he has done it.

What do you say?

[ladyvolspvcoach]

I have to chime in here. I have had the good fortune to spend a good deal of time with the chart both with and without DJ being present. At first I argued the "rationale" of the chart. I couldn't accept that it could give me and my athletes the benefits that it claimed. Then DJ spent a little time with us and showed me several ways to use the chart. The results are remarkable! I personally found that Maximus is 100% correct in his assessment of the chart. Also I know at least one elite athlete and his coach that has spent considerable time with DJ. His run, grip, mid and take-off match perfectly with the chart!! It stands logically that if this part of the vault is not correct then the rest of the variations of the vault mechanics are moot! The chart DOES help greatly to insure that the approach will be as ON as possible - that is not my opinion - it's my observation - it is a FACT!

[bjvando]

quick question, and maybe i've missed it, but what kind of studies\research has been done to prove the " 4 step mid"........

if there has been research, who has done it, what is their credentials... and so on.....

i saw that Earl Bell was mentioned as one of the coaches that use it, but what convinced him to start using it......?

"proof is in the pudding......? "

[cdmilton]

There has been some talk about if your mid does not match up with the chart you need to modify your run. How should one go about doing this. Is the change different if they are in or out at the ideal mid mark?

[dj]

Pvp..â€Â

[souleman]

Where I feel the mid mark chart is absolutely invaluable is for the new vaulter or an old guycoming back to the sport. As a returning vaulter, I am basically coaching my self utilizing everything that I get from Bubba Sparks and you guys and gals here on the forum. Steve White and cdmilton from Flight Deck Athletics have helped me at meets but the one thing they impressed on me was the value of "writing everything down" and "if you only need a 65 foot run up, only take a 65 foot run up". Here's where the mid mark chart comes in. The biggest fear I have is hurting myself while jumping. For an old fossel like me that can happen if I'm under and I rip my arm out of the socket at plant or any other number of things that can go wrong. All of these things go through my mind when I'm at the top of the runway ready to jump. I'm sure it's this way for the new kids too. It can be pretty scary, and obviously can knock the heck out of one's confidence. By working with the chart at all of my end of the season sessions, each time I hit the mid, the confidence level was increasing and , "funny" my jumping was getting better and less painful. If you go to www.bubbapv.com and go to my backyard set-up photos you can see how I set the runway up for practicing this. I have my tape measure along side the runway. At dj's take off point I have a 8" X 54" piece of packing foam laid across the track.Back at the mid point I have a rope with a loop in it that the tape measure goes through. I play Bubba's face your demons game using the marks and I really feel it's helping me. One thing that no one has mentioned on this thread is you modify per height of the vaulter. I am 5'6" therefore my takeoff point and mid mark is rouhly 4" to 6" out from what's on the chart. I think Dave explained this to me once as what had to be because his published chart is for a vaulter who is 6 feet tall. (Correct me if I am wrong Dave). Anyway, If this document will copy and paste here is an example of what I'm using.
DATE HEIGHT GRIP POLE MID STEPS START TAKE OFF ATTPSMAKEMISS
10/6
N/H 9'6" CAT 32' 6" 12 65' 6'10" 5
HIT " N/A N/A 32' 6" 12 65' 6'10" 3
PAD 3-5 N/H N/A N/A 32' 6 6 32' 6" 6'10" 5
N/H 9' 6" CAT 32' 6" 6 32'6" 6'10" 3
7'6" 9' 6" PUR 32' 6" 6 32' 6" 6' 10" 2 X X
7' 6" 9' 9" PUR 32'6" 12 50' 6'10 1 O
8' 10' PUR 33'6" 12 50' 7'4" 1 X
8' 10' SPI 33' 6" 12 51' 7' 4" 1 X
8' 10' SPI 33'6" 12 51' 7'4 2 OO
8'6" 10' 3" SPI 34' 6" 12 52 7'6" 1 X

Now to explaine. Each time I'd jump I'd check the take off pad for spike marks. No marks, I was out and ok. Spike marks, and I was under....do it again. This particular day I was creaming the take off pad so I set the pole down and just started running at the pit and diving into it from beyond the pad. Those are the N/H no pole run throughs. On my chart I have a spot to write in whether I hit the pad or not but I had to modify it to fit into this thread format. I have three poles that I use. The Cat is my old 1550 that I chopped and where my grip is, that thing is like using a steel pole. The PUR is my little pole and the SPI is my 150 Spirit. If you look at my mid marks, you will see that they are different than the ones on dj's chart. This is due to me being 5'6" and what dj told me to do. So, here is an actual application of dj's chart. It seems to be working for me.Here are the benefits to me as I see them. Even if I never quite get the 6.40 model down, and I revert back to being a tuck and shooter like I was in high school, if my steps are down and my speed improves (which the chart insists on) I should still be able to do 10 or 11 feet. For an old geezer like me that's pretty good. For a young brand new vaulter, that's pretty good too. If the steps are off, the jump is off. It doesn't matter what a vaulter can do after take off, if the steps are off, the jump is off. Best part about this thread is, because of dj's last post, now I know how to find my start point. Up to this point I was just guessing. I too, appologize for the length of this post, but maybe there's something in there that you coaches and vaulters can use. Later..................Mike

[Bubba PV]

Obviously I'm very familiar with your process and am so impressed with you commitment to be a student of the event. I also like that, as in depth as your understanding and explanation are, that your focus is to keep it simple. One of the big benefits of Beginner to Bubka (just got the DVD from Alan), is that it continually explains that simple things are to be done extraordinarily well. With that said, I can relate to how your mind needs to be free, just like a new vaulter, and I believe as you say, DJs chart provides a high level of comfort. Thanks for your input from a slightly different, but highly needed view. Bubba

PS - DJ doesn't believe in an adjustment to the list for height but I'll let him address that. I don't question him anymore, I just do as he suggests. He's hasn't failed me yet! Bubba