row? an optical illusion?

[dheldr01]

Many coaches in my area promote training to row and pushing the pole in a rowing motion. Is this because of a training model which requires the row for best results or because as the weight of the vaulter shifts during the top half of the vault looks like a rowing motion? Or as kirk mentions it just to compensate a lack of swing? If so, should training to row be excluded from practice

[altius]

Buy Beginner to Bubka book and dvd from Becca. You will not find the term ROW in 300 pages on the pole vault.

[dougb]

Would, could someone define the term "row" as it relates to the vault. It seems to be used for various actions and I for one am a little confused.

Doug Balcomb

[kcvault]

I think row is supposed to be the action of driving your top arm into the box to accelerate your swing. The problem is many think it means to row with there bottom hand which slows the pole rotation and makes it impossible to get inverted because you can not break your elbow in. So it is not so much a row that happens in the vault instead it is the motion of driving into the box with your top hand. this takes place after you have completed you pre stretch.

--Kasey

[dougb]

Thanks

I can live with that definition and the action of the left arm is a great discription of what must happen.

Doug Balcomb

[KirkB]

I think row is supposed to be the action of driving your top arm into the box to accelerate your swing. The problem is many think it means to row with their bottom hand which slows the pole rotation and makes it impossible to get inverted because you can not break your elbow in. So it is not so much a row that happens in the vault instead it is the motion of driving into the box with your top hand. This takes place after you have completed you pre stretch.

Hmm ... I've never heard of a row defined like that before.

I can live with that definition and the action of the left arm is a great discription of what must happen.

Not so fast!

I'm not convinced that Kasey has this right. I think we need more than just one opinion before we conclude that this is a wrap!

I certainly don't claim to be the expert on what's a row and what's not a row. But the way I understood the term is that it's the ROWING ACTION as if you're rowing a canoe. Last time I rowed a canoe, I rowed it with BOTH arms. One straight, and one bent. Now to match that up with where in the vault you'd have this kind of a "rowing action", it has to be in the upswing/inversion ... not right after the pre-stretch and into the downswing. At least that's MY logic.

Kasey, it sounds to me like you're trying to rationalize a "row" as being a good thing ... thus you diminish the importance of the bottom arm in the "row". Not trying to start an argument here ... just trying to settle on the TRUE definition.

Back in my day, we did use the term "row", but I can't honestly say EXACTLY how it was defined. Anyway, it doesn't matter that far back ... what matters is the CURRENT definition, so that we can all communicate with the same vernacular!

I'll willingly adjust to suit the majority on this ... but only with a statistically significant sample size ... not a sample size of ONE!

Anyone else?

Kirk

[kcvault]

I am actually not trying to rationalize a row but saying it does not exist. It is an illusion, you can vault by rowing but it wont be efective the way it is effective to drive into the box with you top arm. I think of it like I am on a high bar and am doing a tap swing to a free hip circle (though I accelerate my free hip circle by tucking, not sayig this is good). everytime I have seen a vaulter focus on rowing they were unable to get inverted.

--Kasey

[dougb]

Kirk

I like your description as well, except the last time i checked, you paddle a canoe and it takes two oars to row a boat.
Maybe the term should be paddle instead of row? It does appear that you two are talking about moving the arms forward.

Doug Balcomb

[dheldr01]

I am actually not trying to rationalize a row but saying it does not exist. It is an illusion, you can vault by rowing but it wont be efective the way it is effective to drive into the box with you top arm. I think of it like I am on a high bar and am doing a tap swing to a free hip circle (though I accelerate my free hip circle by tucking, not sayig this is good). everytime I have seen a vaulter focus on rowing they were unable to get inverted.

--Kasey

I agree, I never row on the rings or highbar and I can still get inverted, so why do I need to row on a pole?

[LHSpolevault]

I've noticed (at least around here) a little bit that the term "row" has been used to tell a vaulter to pull themselves through once they takeoff, in order to get themselves up and over the bar.


NOW clearly this isn't what you want to do. But this is what I've conceived of the term "row" from my experiences with some other coaches.

[dougb]

Kirk wrote:

"what matters is the CURRENT definition, so that we can all communicate with the same vernacular! "

I AGREE!

We seem to haveanother urban myth going on here. Everyone seems to agree that to row is "bad", but there is no definition of row. If it is wrong then you have to be able to way why, and if you can say why then you have defined it.

We have two definitions from people who have a depth of knowledge about the vault. (Sorry LHS but "pull themselves through" isn't exactly clear) Lets have more input.

Doug Balcomb

[dheldr01]

The way the row was defined to me is to pull yourself up the pull with a straight top and bottom arm because you cannot invert with your swing alone

I know that's vague but its all I could get...