How to straight pole to get better?

[sooch90]

Hi,

So the summer is coming up, and I'll be spending a big portion of it researching and training during my free time. Now, during my summer, I thought it would be wise to focus a good portion of my vaulting practices on straight pole vaulting. I saw Coach David Butler mention on these boards (as well as in his Reno presentation from a couple of years ago) that he uses A LOT of repetitions of straight pole vaulting to get better. He even accredited some of his success with Jason Colwick to the utilization of these straight pole drills.

Now, my question is, how exactly should I straight pole vault? I feel like what I know about straight pole vaulting is only a whole bunch of little facts that it helps this and that, but not enough to really implement it with specific goals in mind when I practice. I know that it forces you to take off out, to jump UP at the take off, to not jam your bottom arm into the pole, etc. However, are these the only goals of straight pole vaulting? However, I think I must be missing something because in my experience, straight pole vaulting weakens my takeoff. Maybe it's my fear of getting ripped off the pole when doing straight pole drills, but when I shift over to flexible poles, I tend to not DRIVE the pole at takeoff. I focus so much on jumping up and not actively using both arms to hit the pole at the takeoff that my plant becomes very weak and passive.

Yet my personal experiences seem so opposite to those of more successful athletes. What am I missing? Maybe I need to focus on being more aggressive at the takeoff when I straight pole vault? Does straight pole vaulting primarily fix issues with takeoff? How about other aspects of the vault?

I think I need a really clear idea of how to use this specific type of drill to really start using it in practice. Right now, if I straight pole vault, I don't really have an idea whether I'm doing a good job or not. I just sort of do it without specific goals in mind, which is why I don't practice this that often.

Thanks!

[powerplant42]

The stiff pole does not allow you to hide mistakes...

That being said, you'll get better at it with thousands (literally) of repetitions.

Don't vault any differently on the stiff pole than the flexible pole... Treat them as one in the same.

[KirkB]

Don't vault any differently on the stiff pole than the flexible pole... Treat them as one in the same.

That's bad advice. Of COURSE they're different! There's numerous differences ... but I won't list them here ... you should use the search button to find them.

Kirk

[KYLE ELLIS]

I am sure this will turn into another long thread, but I have to agree with powerplant here. I think petrov and Bubka even tried to over exagerate the technical aspects when straight poing- free takeoff, high reach, elastic arms, planting with the left hand above the head etc... I also beleive that Petrov derived his technical theories partly from Dutch Warmerdam. So yeah, I think you are trying to accomplish the same fundamentals in straight poling that you want in bending the pole.

[powerplant42]

That's bad advice. Of COURSE they're different!

I did not say that they were not different, I said don't TREAT them that way. If you want to vault high on a flexible pole, perform all the same actions that you would on the stiff pole that you would on the flexible pole.

[altius]

Agree with PP76 - as I suggested in both editions of BTB - Petrov gained many of his basic ideas from an analysis of the stiff pole vaulters. Bubka also pointed out that the bending pole allows you to hide mistakes and made it very clear that the athlete should try to move the pole up and forward at take off - like the stiff polers HAD to - and not to try to bend it. In other words treat the pole as if it were a stiff pole. I took that idea to the next level and suggested that many of the problems we see with vaulters would be eliminated if we thought of the flexible pole as an infinite series of stiff poles - first shortening and then lengthening. SEE Chapter Five in BTB2.

Then the athlete can begin to see how important it is - one to drive the pole up and forward - and not to try to bend it - and two to swing on the pole as powerfully as did stiff polers.

For this reason, stiff pole jumping in all its forms - including over a bar - should be included in a training program -at every level of performance. Note the 6 step test of take off efficiency and baggetts statistics on grip heights for stiff pole work.

[KirkB]

Don't vault any differently on the stiff pole than the flexible pole... Treat them as one in the same.

PP, it's your first of these 2 sentences that I'm referring to ... there's no question that SOME things ... perhaps MANY things are the SAME between stiff and flex pole vaulting ... I'm not debating that ... but at the risk of repeating myself I still say that there's NUMEROUS things that you can and should do differently ... and YES I am stirring the pot!

Kirk

[baggettpv]

For the begnners coming up it is imperative that they are taught how to straight pole vault first. Then as they get better at the take-off and are able to hold higher then the pole will start to bend when that grip gets close to the end of a pole at their body weight. When I have a chance to start a child in the event that is the technique that I use.
Now changing someone that was not taught that way is a different story. Totally different story. And trying to convince them the other way is better? Nearly impossible.

Rick Baggett
WSTC

[altius]

Nearly impossible. Have to disagree old son - nothingis impossible for a great teacher like yourself - that is if the learner wants to change- that is the key. May take two years for an experienced vaulter tho and most are not prepared to sacrifice that much of their career. Thats why we have to get it right at the start.

[powerplant42]

PP, it's your first of these 2 sentences that I'm referring to ... there's no question that SOME things ... perhaps MANY things are the SAME between stiff and flex pole vaulting ... I'm not debating that ... but at the risk of repeating myself I still say that there's NUMEROUS things that you can and should do differently ...

I disagree. If you want to use stiff poling as a tool to help learn to vault on a flexible pole, why would you change anything? The goals are identical... High plant, move the pole, swing long, extend hard.

What are you getting at?

[KirkB]

What are you getting at?

PP, as I said above ...

There's numerous differences ... but I won't list them here ... you should use the search button to find them.

You participated in these discussions, so I'm suprised that you've already forgotten. Hint:

There's at least 13 things that are SIMILAR between stiff and flex pole vaulting, but at least 22 things that are DIFFERENT.

PP, if you can find that quote of mine (in a November 2008 thread on PVP), then you can go to the front of the class!

Kirk

[altius]

KIrkB, I would suggest that the objective here is to clarify issues for folk who have limited experience as either vaulters or coaches. A post which tells us that there are 11 similarities and 22 differences does not help to do that. The critical thing for everyone to remember is that stiff pole vaulting is the ONLY way to begin to learn to vault safely and stiff pole vaulting in all its forms is one of the best ways to develop and or maintain effective technique - that is assuming your aim is to get as close as possible to the Petrov model.