The Joggadin Effect

[VaultPurple]

I was vaulting saterday and was trying to work on a more free take off and bringing my take off farther back so I can get on longer poles. At my last meet I jumped 13'6 holding about 13'3 on a 14' 150 Spirit ut my take off was like 9'8''-10' when it needs to be about 11 or 11'6. I had plenty of speed and was jumping that day with the standards anywhere between 65 and 75. But when I was jumping Saterday I was using my 13'7 150 and 14'1 145 trying to hit a farther off take off so that when I do move up to the 14'7s I wont be 3foot under. I moved my step back about a foot but was still turning over just as good and felt like I was running really fast at take off. I took off at 11', went up fine with my trail leg back.... but the second I tried to swing I got kicked back really fast like I was going to get thrown into a front flip like in a joggadin. I was still landing deep into the pit but could not swing up. And the one time or so I managed to swing up It felt like I was having to force it and was stalling at the top.


So what does anyone think went wrong?

[KirkB]

I was ... trying to work on a more free take off and bringing my take off farther back ... I moved my step back about a foot but was still turning over just as good and felt like I was running really fast at take off. I took off at 11', went up fine with my trail leg back.... ...

So what does anyone think went wrong?

There may be several other factors involved here, but I will only comment on one of them ...

You say you felt like your were 'running really fast at takeoff".

That's not the same as saying you "jumped off the ground really hard at take off".

Did you jump, or not?

Remember that a free takeoff allows you to JUMP! Take advantage of this. It's something that you can't do (very well) when you're under, so you may not be used to the feel of this. Among other things, jumping on takeoff will give you a better pole angle when it hits the box. This in turn will improve the pole's rotation ... you will be able to raise your grip ... and many other good things will happen as well.

Kirk

[baggettpv]

And remember, jumping from a run is learned skill. Practice it! They say if you want to jump higher then you must "JUMP HIGHER". That means...... go do alot of jumps from a run, on your own, in a hallway, in the gym. Wherever, just jump.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[golfdane]

And remember, jumping from a run is learned skill. Practice it! They say if you want to jump higher then you must "JUMP HIGHER". That means...... go do alot of jumps from a run, on your own, in a hallway, in the gym. Wherever, just jump.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

Yeah, but maintain speed as well. One really nice drill I use with my athletes, is hurdles spaced at about 13-15 feet (size 10.5 ). 3-5 hurdles depending on skill. In order to complete them, speed must be maintained at take-off. This youtube shows the high jump version of the drill. The long jump/pole vault version would use lower hurdles and spaced further apart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLrmLd3USfI

You'll quickly realize, that if you are unable to take-off AND maintain speed, you'll loose momentum and have to end the drill prematurely.

So, in order to clarify Rick: In order to jump higher, more force must be added to push the pole towards vertical.

[powerplant42]

Bottom arm blocking.

[KirkB]

PP - your 3 word reply doesn't say much. What do you mean? If you're referring to golfdane's reference to "push the pole towards vertical", I don't think that's what he meant.

Kirk

[golfdane]

PP - your 3 word reply doesn't say much. What do you mean? If you're referring to golfdane's reference to "push the pole towards vertical", I don't think that's what he meant.

Kirk

Right. In no way would I promote blocking. The "push" comes from high hands (especially the top hand) AND the take-off, while maintaining as much speed as possible. So, jump AND run.
Video of my son:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RH09dZpwpk
Still a long way to go, but freeze at take-off to see a pretty good take-off (still need a faster inversion and some runway speed).
Kirk, you know his trainer

[powerplant42]

No no no, I'm saying that that could cause the 'jagodin effect'.

If he's just getting used to a free take-off, the mind tells the body to try to protect itself, sometimes through pushing the bottom arm out. He's been using an under take-off for a while, so his brain is expecting his body to be pulled right up. That's the key.

Plus what you guys said about maintaining speed, etc.

[VaultPurple]

I mean it really feels like bottom arm blocking but I dont think that is it... i mean it could be, I havent accualy seen any videos of myself lately, but i can use anyhing from a 13 155 to a 14 155 an get the same effect while still landing deep in pit. I think I might try some 4 or 5 steps with some 13 foot poles to try to keep my bottom arm more relaxed. I know Im running plenty fast, and Im jumping at take off with a pretty good turnover since i moved from 7 to 6 steps. Will just have to see how it goes.

[Vaultingman]

Using to much bottom arm and not rotating pole with top arm results in a stall out and flip.
At least you are strong enough with the bottom arm but once the pole hits the back of the box or bed it will straighten up fliping you over if you keep the arm locked.
Apply equal pressure on both arms keep shoulders square and swing. (easy!)

[KirkB]

Using to much bottom arm and not rotating pole with top arm results in a stall out and flip.
At least you are strong enough with the bottom arm but once the pole hits the back of the box or bed it will straighten up fliping you over if you keep the arm locked.
Apply equal pressure on both arms keep shoulders square and swing. (easy!)

Hmm ... I don't think that's it. Using ANY bottom arm is too much.

VaultPurple, perhaps the title of your thread identifies your problem? Jagodins (note the proper spelling) are supposedly good for practicing your takeoff WITHOUT practicing your swing. I'm skeptical about this, and I've said so in an ealier post ... http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=16189&st=0&sk=t&sd=a ...

... you've recommended Jagodins, and I've now seen 6-Pack (and that other dude) demo them on video. Very interesting, but I'm not convinced that they're a good idea. It seems to me that you have to push with your bottom arm to do this drill, and it doesn't allow you to drive the chest thru enough. Isn't this setting you up for a bad habit? Or is the idea of the drill just to focus on the takeoff, and what happens after that should be ignored?

Since I've never personally done Jagodins, I won't protest too strongly here. I'm just a little pessimistic about them.

VP, you're now complaining that you have "the jagodin effect".

It seems to me that it would be very difficult to just focus on the takeoff, and ignore the fact that you're pushing with the bottom arm right after that - supposedly just as a way to bail without finishing the jump.

Could it be that the bottom arm push is errantly getting imprinted into your brain? Could it be that this is the "jagodin effect" that you're trying to fix?

Kirk

[powerplant42]

I think KB is right with the diagnosis.

Here's your prescription: Do the same drill with a stiff pole!

Have you tried agapit's pole climbing drill? I think that might help.