full vertical extension help

[cousinmose32]

I have been having trouble lately transitioning from the L position to a full body extension on the inversion. Comparing videos of myself and elite vaulters i have at this point diagnosed the issue to be that my hips are not high enough in comparision to the rest of my body (making it much tougher for me to extend my body). In each of my vaults they are either at or just beneath the level of my head.
Whatever the problem is when the pole unbends my body moves forward at a 60 degree angle, not up. Dropping my shoulders and leaning my head back is not making much of a difference.

As far as i know its because of my swing, what muscles/ movements take over once i am in the L position? Am i forgetting something besides the rowing and the shoulder drop?

I am posting this to ask if there is any drill i can do that will help me with this specific problem other than the basic swing drill onto the mat or lowering my grip.
I have tried bubkas and other strength drills in those areas and have shown little improvement. I recognize the fact that this takes time to develop better but i wanted to know if there is anything else i maybe doing wrong that would cause this.

I don't know how much of his helps but i have tried both the petrov/bubka method and the method of tucking both legs on the inversion: both seem to yield the same results.

Pole Rating: 160
My weight: 157
pole height: 13'
grip: 12'6"
PR: 11'6"

I am a high school junior and have not had a coach these past 3 years, so all help is appreciated

[KirkB]

Mose, I usually ask vaulters like you to post a vid so that we have a clearer picture of what your exact problem is. However, you problem is so typical of so many young HS vaulters in the 11-6 range that it's fairly obvious.

You will have already read quite a few threads on PVP ... some with vids ... that describe exactly the same problem. Continue reading those threads. It sounds like you're already read quite a few of them, so keep reading ... the answers are there ... given by myself as well as many other "armchair coaches".

Search for terms like "dreaded V", "dreaded L", and "flatback" (or "flat back"). Your "dreaded L is like joebro's dreaded V from a year or 2 ago, and now he's flying over 15 -5! 6P, can you help out Mose here?

You will read that the answer lies in the fact that most top half problems are due to bottom half problems ... or takeoff or plant or pole drop problems. Every problem has its source earlier in the sequence of actions that you go thru on your vault. Fix the earlier ones, and the later ones self-correct ... to a certain extent.

As you've already found out, it's futile to drop your head back. "Dropping your shoulders" is a good idea ... keep striving for that ... but remember that by that time in your vault, you've already "lost it". You're probably not extending your top arm high enough on your plant, you're probably "under" on your takeoff, you're probably getting picked off the ground (instead of JUMPING off the ground), and you're probably not actively SWINGING once you take off. Instead, you're probably just hanging on. The quicker you can swing once you take off, then the quicker you'll get upside down on the pole, with your hips extending above your hands.

It's unfortunate that you don't have a coach, becuz that's what you REALLY need. Someone that can give you instant feedback while you're practising and competing. It's too late for this HS season, but why don't you try to attend some camps this summer, and come back next year with a better idea of proper technique ... which is what you'll learn at a camp.

Kirk

[xxartanisxx]

A good drill for you is a series we call 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 & 1/2, and 5.

Start with your hand grip at about 10' (You will want to be able to jump with that grip without the pole bending but not be able to jump over the pole) and run from 3 lefts (assuming your right handed) and do the following for each number.

1. Hold with your right hand slightly above your shoulder, run up, plant and just jump with one hand and land on your left knee and right foot (just holding the takeoff position).

2. Hold with 2 hands now and do the same but picking up the pole off the runway holding it parallel at your waist.

3. You will hold with both hands run up keep your right knee bent and left leg straight swing all the way back holding that position landing on your back.

4. Do a 3 but just straighten your right leg when you hit vertical.

4 & 1/2. Do a 4 but turn half way at the ending landing next to your pole.

5. Now just turn all the way around simulating a jump without the bend or release. You will land on top of pole (kinda - hard to explain).

You will normally do about 5 of each when you start learning em as you go through the progression after a while we end up doing 1-2 of em for warmups.

The 3 will help majorly with your swinging back problem.


Also if you got any videos of you vaulting please post them it could make it a lot easier to catch whats wrong on your technique.

[cousinmose32]

my season just ended, sorry i took so long but i wanted to have a definitive reply for everyone

i finished 9th in my section at the WPIAL qualifiers

my form improved, but apparently ive still got a ways to go:
my swing improved to an extent, and ive found that another thing i have to work on is to move upwards at the top and not outwards (mostly a mental issue, so itll just take a bit of time)

thanks to everyone that offered advice, ill do what i can to continue training over the summer until next season, i expect it to go much better

[cousinmose32]

forgot to say that i finished with 11'9"

[KirkB]

... my swing improved to an extent, and ive found that another thing i have to work on is to move upwards at the top and not outwards (mostly a mental issue ...

This is NOT mostly a mental issue. It's a simple matter of you losing enough momentum to keep you going upwards ... so you go towards the bar. By putting more oomph into the bottom half of your vault, you WILL go vertical!

forgot to say that i finished with 11'9"

Nice going! You can update your profile now.

Kirk

[cousinmose32]

great news, just went to the SRU pole vaulting camp, and i cannot say enough good things about coach Brady Rhodes and the rest of the staff.

as it turns out, a major cause of my excessive penetration is that the pole i was on was too soft for me
with that knowledge and many other refinements to my technique i got onto a 155-165 14' pole and cleared the bungie at 14'6" (on the way down, so with standards within a legal range i may have cleared it)

because i hadnt realized that my pole was too soft, i spent my entire season working as hard as i could to improve my take off, plant, and swing (the majority of my sources came from these forums, which are absolutely fantastic)

still working on finding a video that i can post, thanks again for all of the help

[KirkB]

... still working on finding a video that i can post, thanks again for all of the help

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video must be worth at least a million!

Altho you had a great camp ... where you discovered that you should have been on a stiffer pole ... and altho you're thrilled with your progress (and we're thrilled for you) ... you could have done even better this year if you had diagnosed your pole problem earlier. No use crying over spilt milk, but your lesson learned is to get your vids linked into PVP EARLY in the year ... so that you can get our advice early enough to help you for the season.

Post that vid as soon as you can, and we'll see if we can help you improve over the summer in prep for next year. And EARLY next year, post some more vid, so we can see your technical improvements ... and give you even more advice.

Kirk

[11kalnmitc]

nice the same thing happened to me last year at SRU pole vault camp . where are you WPIAL qualifiers? Ours are at Norwin, were you there too?